For real, dawg. Unfortunately, some Christians are slow to recognize that. But it’s never too late; a Dutch Church is reconsidering its policy of “Solidarity with Israel.”
After 37 years of boasting of “inalienable solidarity” with the people of Israel, the Netherlands’ second largest church plans to reexamine its stance this fall. A group of notables from the Protestant Church in the Netherlands (PCN) warned last week that the organization, which has over 2 million members, is in danger of being “hijacked” by pro-Palestinian activists.
The warning – coauthored by Dr. Jan van der Graaf, who served for 35 years as PCN’s general secretary, and three other prominent church figures – was an open letter against changing the reference to Israel. It was addressed to Minister Henri Veldhuis, a General Synod member who said the clause made the church adopt a biased view that ignored Israeli actions against Palestinians.
Of course the Dutch are no leading voice on Christianity, nor are they an authority on theology, but they have a solid track record of democracy, human rights (officially and post-colonialism that is) and progressive values, evident by the omnipresent smoke blanket over the country.
This is the latest development in the march towards Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions (BDS) against Israel. A devil’s-advocate, wishful-thinking type, yet critical review of the BDS movement came out in last week’s Economist.
While the Economist correctly illuminates the strength of Israel’s advocates and lobbyists in comparison to Apartheid South Africa’s, it fails to recount much of the support the BDS movement has received, or state the intimidation tactics employed against those who consider BDS against Israel. More importantly, they fail to compare the time lines of the two struggles. The official calls to boycott apartheid South Africa began in 1958. Apartheid officially came down in 1994, with the march towards equality still in its infancy.
The calls to boycott and divest in Israel began in 2000, and received wide grassroots support from Palestine in the form of the BDS call only in 2005. The latter marked by the Economist as the starting point of the campaign. Which makes it even more unfair to expect large milestones in this short lifetime. The anti-apartheid movement received its first concrete backing in 1974 when the International Olympic Committee suspended South Africa’s membership. Given that timeline, and the amount of the misinformation it has to overcome, the BDS movement is making significant strides.
All this recalls the haphazard campaign against South Africa before sanctions got UN backing in 1962. But the anti-Israel movement shows little sign of getting such official support. One reason for this is that Israel has more powerful lobbyists—both in Jewish organisations and in America’s evangelical Christian movement, to whom the birth of the Jewish state is a fulfilment of prophecy (some BDS motions passed in American churches really reflect internal Christian rows). Unlike the African National Congress, which acted as both a moral beacon and an organiser for sanctions, the Palestinian leadership does not support BDS—fearing that it will hurt Palestinians as much as Israelis—and is much weaker and more divided.
The chief difference between the Israeli and South African cases is, however, in the moral sphere. Israel is a robust democracy with vibrant academic freedom [blah blah blah]. Whereas it was plain to most South Africans that “separate development” was a cover for a gross system of racism, the rights and wrongs in Palestine are both murkier and more fiercely contested. For all these reasons left-leaning diaspora Jews and campaigners against the occupation often argue against BDS and for more
“constructive” engagement. Boycotting Israeli universities, they note, actually hurts some of the occupation’s most trenchant critics (and may thus be unlikely to bother Israeli hawks).
Even fans of BDS do not fully agree on the best way forward. While some call for broad boycotts, others think “smart sanctions”, such as banning goods produced from settlements in the occupied territories, or from specific firms, will have more effect and sidestep claims of anti-Semitism. Israel’s economy, they say, is more vulnerable to pressure than South Africa’s—smaller, more globally connected and with fewer natural resources. “I don’t think the boycotts will be as widespread as with South Africa,” says Mr Hever, “but a small and specific economic impact can change many people’s minds.” Perhaps. But blaming Israel alone for the impasse in the occupied territories will continue to strike many outsiders as unfair.
You gotta love how they still try to pull off this “robust democracy” BS.
Related posts:
- Israel, The Holy, Questioned
- South African Union Head: “Israel is an apartheid state”
- Israel: Young & Single
- Israeli Apartheid Week
- Divestment Conference in February
pali-american,
Why should Israel give you a visa? You want to destroy the state.
Go to Jordan and have your family meet you there.
Get it through your head. If you want to destroy Israel, Israel has every right to view you as an enemy and try to destroy you.
If you want to negotiate, Israel will negotiate. And it will neogtiate out of strength because that is the situation. If you want to fight, don’t complain if Israel fights back.
Now you can continue your hypocritical ways of insulting Israelis and their supporters while anonymous and begging from them while not. How pathetic.
Posted by Anonymous | September 20, 2007, 12:52 pm“Go to Jordan and have your family meet you there.”
Thank you for showing your true colors, ethnic cleanser.
Posted by Pali-American | September 20, 2007, 1:02 pmNot at all. Your family can come back to their homes after they visit you in Jordan. I am just giving you a solution in which you won’t have to “beg”. You immediately accuse me of being an ethnic cleanser. Is that better or worse than a “dumb motherfucker”?
Posted by Anonymous | September 20, 2007, 1:56 pmNah, I’ll visit them in Palestine, my homeland. I’ve never been to Jordan and never will go. Palestine is my homeland.
You zionuts are good at switching the issues. Someone said I’m against the existence of Israel. I said no…inter alia, that i’m against Israel stealing my dad’s land and building a settlement on it, which they did in the mid-90′s.
Posted by Pali-American | September 20, 2007, 2:05 pm“Why should Israel give you a visa? You want to destroy the state.”
No I don’t. My point in bringing up the issue of me having to apply to Israel for a visa to visit the West Bank was directed at Roy who constantly says that Israel doesn’t control the West Bank.
You know that though, you’re just using typical Zionut obfusication.
Posted by Pali-American | September 20, 2007, 2:10 pminter alia
Posted by Anonymous | September 20, 2007, 2:41 pmIn the Gaza strip today, Mahmoud Al-Kfafi, was killed when he was run over by an Israelie army bulldozer in Joher Al-Deek village, near the Al-Bureij refugee camp.
More non-violent/non-control of Palestinians by Isralies.
Posted by Pali-American | September 20, 2007, 4:47 pmpali-american
clearly you’re set in your ways and in your thinking. You expound facts that help your case and ignore those that don’t. You magnify random incidents and paint all of Israel with that brush. There’s no point arguing with someone who starts off with a conclusion and amasses his facts to fit that conclusion. And that applies to anyone, no matter what side they’re on.
And who would you like to control the west bank? What would ensure the best scenario? Giving it to Hamas? Fatah? What’s your solution. I know blaming israel is a fun game for you and a convenient way to explain all palesinian problems, but let’s here a viable practical solution.
Posted by Anonymous | September 20, 2007, 4:51 pmOne country, where both people’s narratives, historical and current rights are observed and respected.
Israel must come clean with what it has done to the Palestinian people. One country must be created where Palestinians (Muslims and Christians) and Jews are given equal citizenship and equal rights under the law.
You don’t agree? Suck a zionut, bitch.
Posted by Pali-American | September 20, 2007, 5:06 pmclever. People can’t even get along on these stupid blogger boards, you think its possible to create one country where both people’s narratives and historical rights are respected? People can’t even agree on what the narratives are, let alone live in an environment that fosters that. So while I agree its a nice utopic idea, it doesn’t seen practicable in any way what so ever.
It’s like saying “hmm.. a lot of fighting going on with Pakistan and India these days.. how bout we just go and create one huge country where everyone has equal citizenship and everyone’s narratives etc. are respected and included.” It’s just not real life, son. And you know it, too.
Posted by Anonymous | September 20, 2007, 5:11 pm>>>It’s like saying “hmm.. a lot of fighting going on with Pakistan and India these days.. how bout we just go and create one huge country where everyone has equal citizenship and everyone’s narratives etc. are respected and included.”
Wow, like, that is, like so true and such as. That is so deep, such as.
Thanks for the insight. You’ve changed me, I no longer demand that Palestinians be treated as humans.
Posted by Pali-American | September 20, 2007, 5:15 pmso clever my friend. But your suggestion is naive, and again, you know it is. it’s funny how you forget the palestinians could have had a state years ago, but anyways, what do you want exactly? Israel to just disappear from the west bank and you’d have a little entity there ruled by hamas? Is that it?
Posted by Anonymous | September 20, 2007, 5:33 pmI would like a billion dollars.
Justice demands….
One country, where both people’s narratives, historical and current rights are observed and respected.
Israel must come clean with what it has done to the Palestinian people. One country must be created where Palestinians (Muslims and Christians) and Jews are given equal citizenship and equal rights under the law.
Posted by Pali-American | September 20, 2007, 5:37 pmi don’t know how realistic that is. The two narratives are, how shall i put this, conflicting.
Posted by Anonymous | September 20, 2007, 6:33 pmPali-american,
What you want can’t happen. It is not realistic.
The Wallons and Flemish in Belgium cannot get along and Belgium will be broken. The Chechs and Slovaks couldn’t live together in one country. I am not even talking about Yugoslavia, Iraq, Lebanon or India-Pakistan-Bangladesh.
Justice demands that all people earn at least $40,000 a year and have universal health care as well as free education etc. etc.
Just repeating utopian statements is not going to get you closer to any solution. A one state solution is going to result in a huge civil war. The hatered and disrespect is just one aspect. The other is the huge economic differences between Jews and Palestinians. You will have both a ethnic conflict and a class conflict at the same time.
Give the one state solution a rest. Israelis would rather have the current war than fight a civil war from a disadvantaged position and trash Israel in the process. This is before you even ask them to give up the Jewish character of the state. There is one Jewish state in the world and the Jews are determined that at least one remain.
And you should really visit Petra. It is very nice.
Posted by Anonymous | September 20, 2007, 7:34 pmChristians have been mistreating Jews for thousands of years and I am not only talking about crusaders or anti-Semites – I am talking about segregating Christianity from God’s chosen people, from God’s Law and miss-interpreting numerous promises that God made to Israel and claiming that they apply to the Church.
How many pastors really teach and practice the Law?
Matthew 5:17-19 – “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”
How many Churches teach replacement theology in one way or another?
Rom 11:11 – I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles.
Rom 11:12 – Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fullness?
How many Churches donate money to Jews?
Rom 15:27 – For if the Gentiles have shared in the Jews’ spiritual blessings, they owe it to the Jews to share with them their material blessings.
If you really want to know what would Jesus do, here are just a few things:
He would not eat bacon; he would observe all the Jewish holidays; he would worship in the synagogue and not in the church, and he would do it on Saturday, not on Sunday. In other words, Jesus would observe the Jewish Law as found in the Torah (Pentateuch ). Just because we don’t have to observe the Law in order to be saved, does not mean that we shouldn’t. Just like our children do not have to make good grades to be loved and to be part of our families, but they sure need at least try to be successful at school.
Check out http://www.lawandland.net
Posted by LawAndLand.net | September 20, 2007, 9:54 pmone state solution is a disingenuous, if not sinister, suggestion
Posted by Anonymous | September 21, 2007, 5:47 amhttp://www.breitbart.tv/?p=5820
sure, have a country as a reward! at least these guys aren’t in power.. oh wait…
Posted by Anonymous | September 21, 2007, 5:49 am“The facts say that Israel targets militants because they’re militants…”
No Roy. The facts say Israel targets “militants” because it doesn’t believe that the Palestinians have the right to liberty and representation. The whole world knows that the Palestinians have been occupied by Israel without representation from the Israeli government for 60 years. Show me one incident in history when a people stayed under occupation for that long and didn’t rebel. One example, Roy. One example.
“Really? Or is there something you need to clarify about your position on this?”
My position is exactly the same as yours. Just as you believe that Israelis have the right to retaliate when attacked, the Palestinians have the right to retaliate when attacked.
“Hardships of their own making.”
Yes Roy, solid point. The Palestinians decided to leave their homelands and render themselves refugees in the most densely populated spot on the planet. It’s also their own making when they asked Israel to enclose them in that spot, control their economy, and decide who leaves and how doesn’t (btw, way before they started firing those crude ass rockets).
Posted by Nidalio | September 21, 2007, 6:26 amPali-American,
Don’t listen to anonym. 12:52 about going to Jordan. Why the hassle when you can convert to Judaism and have unquestioned, free access to the Holy Land. Think about it, you can get yourself a free birthright trip!
Posted by Nidalio | September 21, 2007, 6:34 amAnon. 4:51
“clearly you’re set in your ways and in your thinking. You expound facts that help your case and ignore those that don’t. You magnify random incidents and paint all of Israel with that brush. There’s no point arguing with someone who starts off with a conclusion and amasses his facts to fit that conclusion. And that applies to anyone, no matter what side they’re on.”
Sounds a whole lot like the way blindly pro-Iraelis think. They take the suicide bomber incidents and ignore 60 years of occupation, and at the end reach the false conclusion that Palestinians are the terrorists and Israel is the victim. How about we discussing 200 years of slavery in the context of the horrific acts of Nat Turner?
Posted by Nidalio | September 21, 2007, 6:48 amThe facts say Israel targets “militants” because it doesn’t believe that the Palestinians have the right to liberty and representation.
Another lie from Nidalio. Israel arrests and tries them when it can do so, but it can’t always do so.
Show me one incident in history when a people stayed under occupation for that long and didn’t rebel.
That’s a rather disingenous challenge. When was the state of war settled? The occupation ends when peace is negotiated.
My position is exactly the same as yours.
Nope. You believe any attack by Palestinians is justified. I believe only certain attacks by Israelis are justified. You support terrorism. I support Israel’s right to actually defend itself against those that threaten her.
It’s also their own making when they asked Israel to enclose them in that spot, control their economy, and decide who leaves and how doesn’t (btw, way before they started firing those crude ass rockets).
You mean back in the good old suicide-bombing days? Ah, yes, the gentleman’s war…
You want to end the occupation? Negotiate for peace.
Posted by Roy | September 21, 2007, 7:21 ampalestinians have been under israeli occupation for 60 years? 60, really? Umm.. okay. Read some history my friend.
Posted by Anonymous | September 21, 2007, 7:45 amRoy,
You defend Israel’s state terrorism. You defend Palestinian children being blown up by Isralie’s bombs and their flesh ripped by IDF bullets.
You support controlling the lives of millions while denying them equal rights and citzienship.
You rationalize all this…because that’s what racists and supporters of tyranny have done forever.
Posted by Pali-American | September 21, 2007, 8:09 amNidalio,
Fuck that bigot. I don’t pay attention to people like that. Nazis thought jews were subhuman, racist whites enslaved blacks and zionuts tell Palestinians to leave their homeland because they’re not chosen by God to live there…
Holocaust deniers, Slavery rationalizers and Nakba deniers…cut from the same cloth.
Posted by Pali-American | September 21, 2007, 8:58 amnabka deniers? are you a fucking moron? how convenient of you to forget that, oh i dont know, a number of countries invaded israel and tried to destroy it. you’re living in a fantasy world playboy.
Posted by Anonymous | September 21, 2007, 9:18 am…and Nazis say Jews controlled business, etc. and needed to be taken care of, which I and any other sane person would say is disgusting and ridiculous, and now many deny the holocaust took place, to them, I shake my head in disgust.
Many justify slavery too. “Oh, we needed to build up the U.S.,” or, “they were savages in Africa anyway”, etc.
And now people rationalize the displacemnt, murder and tyranny perpetrated against the Palestinians and many are now deniers of this human tragedy.
I shake my head in disgust at all the Holocaust, Nakba and slavery rationalizers or deniers.
Posted by Pali-American | September 21, 2007, 9:22 amyou have no sense of logic at all. it might do you some good to not get so twisted up in your pre-conceived narratives. Again, it’s funny how people can’t even agree on these stupid comments yet you assert that a one state solution is the answer. What an intellectual farce you proffer. The real palestinian tragedy is that much of it could have been averted if not completely avoided. Get the idea of destroying isreal out of your head, try to accept a practical peace plan, and maybe then things will start 2 change.
Posted by Anonymous | September 21, 2007, 9:44 amLook,
I don’t blame you for feeling like this. It is difficult to accept that something you have been told your entire life is not true. And that Isralie flag you hang up in your dorm room represents the destruction and continued tyranny of an entire people, based on religious bigotry.
There’s hope though. Justice doesn’t demand that you abondan your love and connection with this land, but rather, come to terms with the atrocities and tyranny that the Palestinians have suffered and move towards the one state solution that Justice demands.
I remember as a freshman in college, my phyc. professor told us a story. He grew up in the south and said when talk of de-segregation was put forth, whites went crazy, including his mother, he said “my mother said, ‘no way will i sit near a black on a bus’”, etc.
Then when the laws passed and segregation was elimnated, he said he remembers sitting on a bus where a black man sat in the front and his mother said “well, they do pay for a fare just like everyone else”.
Zionuts will soon accept that they are not superior to Palestinians and that they can’t just steal their land, destroy their lives and ignore it, but rather, must live as equals in one country.
Sure you’ll have some neo-zionuts (like neo-nazis), but the law will deal with them.
What a wonderful world and middle east this would be. What a win for justice, what a win for humanity this would be.
Free the master and the slave, free Israel and Palestine. Jews, Muslims and Christians are equal and should be treated as such.
Posted by Pali-American | September 21, 2007, 9:59 amPali-American,
And why will your vision work in Israel if it could not work in Belgium, Chechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, Iraq, Lebanon etc.?
The model implemented in the South was a WORKING model taken from the North. Show me in the Arab world two very distinct communities sharing power in a democratic and liberal way. If you want to convince anybody of your position, implement it in one Arab country and show it to be sucessful. Otherwise, all evidence shows that your vision will lead to disaster.
Give us an argument why you think there is a chance for success in Israel. Why are the Jews and Pals so different than the Shia, Sunni, Kurds, Alawites, Copts, Yazdis, Assyirians etc. that inhabit the middle east and that can’t get together unless a strong man enfoces such unity and suppresses a civil war.
Posted by Anonymous | September 21, 2007, 11:33 amexactly.. which is why it’s quite the sinister and purposefully underhanded idea. Anyone with even an ounce of intellect knows that a one state solution is a disaster waiting to happen, for everyone.
Posted by Anonymous | September 21, 2007, 11:48 amSeriously kabobers, if you want a rigorous debate on the merits of the one state solution you must address the feasibility problem. Why will it work in spite of all contemporary and historical evidence against the feasibility of such solutions? After all, it will not work unless you convince the Israelis there is little danger for them in such a solution. So how do you convince them?
Perhaps the guru Abu-Nimah would care to address such issues? I don’t see any willingness on any kabober’s part to respond to this.
Posted by Anonymous | September 21, 2007, 12:53 pmThe difference between the South and Israel-Palestine is that in the South they were extending the franchise within a specific region. In Israel-Palestine everyone has citizenship rights within Israel (despite falsehoods stated in this forum), but Palestine is internationally considered a separate country, and therefore Israeli law is not applicable.
-different-anon
Posted by Anonymous | September 21, 2007, 7:51 pmRoy,
“Another lie from Nidalio. Israel arrests and tries them when it can do so, but it can’t always do so.”
Yeah, but arrests and tries them for what? For seeking independence and liberty. When arrests didn’t work, they resorted to assassination.
“That’s a rather disingenous challenge”
And that’s because you couldn’t come up with an answer.
“I believe only certain attacks by Israelis are justified. You support terrorism….”
What attacks you believe are not justified? As for me supporting terrorism, that Zionut strategy of putting words in people’s mouths is getting old. Try something else.
“You mean back in the good old suicide-bombing days? Ah, yes, the gentleman’s war…You want to end the occupation? Negotiate for peace.”
I like how you skipped over 30 years of occupation and jumped right into the suicide bombing era. You turned a blind eye to the fact that Israel made these people into refugees, not a “making of their own.”
Peace can be negotiated when Israel is ready to make serious commitments, not negotiate peace while expanding settlements. While many Israelis want peace, the Israeli government doesn’t. That’s been proven through their lame offers at Oslo, Camp David, etc.
Posted by Nidalio | September 22, 2007, 11:29 amanon. 7:45,
“palestinians have been under israeli occupation for 60 years? 60, really? Umm.. okay. Read some history my friend.”
Oops, you caught me. It was 59 years. But I know what you’re getting at. You’re thinking post-1967. But think again. Israel started displacing Palestinians and occupying their lands since 1948. I take it you’re gona go and read more history, right?
Posted by Nidalio | September 22, 2007, 11:36 amanon. 9:18
“… a number of countries invaded israel and tried to destroy it.”
And how does that justify the displacement and ethnic cleansing (e.g. Deir Yassin massacare) of Palestinians in 1948 and beyond? The Arabs responded to the Israeli invasion of 1948 and got their asses kicked badly. Why did Israel keep the Palestinians kicked off their land after its victory over those “number of countries.” This is just propoganda that Israeli “revisionist” historians (who wrote history as they wished) try convey to the world about how Israel was this poor little country threatened by a number of monsterous Arab countries, when the fact was that Israel’s military power was far more superior than that of its neighbors combined. If Israel was not confident of its military power, it wouldn’t have executed the 1948 Nakbah, since it knew there will be reaction from neighboring countries.
Posted by Nidalio | September 22, 2007, 11:51 amnidalio, you’re a certified moron. but keep thinking that your little revisionist narrative is on point..
and what invasion of 48 are you talking about? oh yes, the declaration of the state of israel. too bad the pal’s had a chance for a state and f’d it up. and yes, israel’s military in 48 was greater than all of the invading arab countries.. how convenient for your narrative crafted out of thin air.
Posted by Anonymous | September 22, 2007, 1:19 pmAnonyass 1:19,
Care to enlighten us on how the Palestinians fucked shit up and denied themselves a state? And don’t give me that crap that they were offered 43% of historic Palestinian when they made up more than 2/3 of the population. I need a better reason than that.
P.S. By definition, invasion is infringement by intrusion (Israel illegally kicked Palestinians off their land), that’s what happened in 1948, not some mere declaration of independence.
Posted by Nidalio | September 22, 2007, 3:31 pm