I really began to embrace my Arab identity during the formative years of my life, while a student at the University of Michigan. This was a turbulent time for Arab-Americans after the terrorist attacks of 9/11, yet the community persevered (and continues to do so). Much of the credit goes to Dr. Hala Maksoud who, as the President of the American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee, was able to mobilize, empower, and unite the community more than any one before - or after. It was around this time, under the leadership and inspiration of Dr. Maksoud, that I became an active participant in Arab-American advocacy. In 2002, the entire community suffered a tremendous loss with her passing. Arguably, the community - today rife with divisions - has yet to rebound. It is an understatement to say that Dr. Maksoud is greatly missed.
In her memory, the Hala Salaam Maksoud Foundation for Arab-American Leadership was created to train a new generation of Arab-American leaders. Specifically, the Foundation sponsors 5-day seminars that bring together young Arab-Americans for leadership training. The seminars are organized by Hussein Ibish of the American Task Force on Palestine. Below is a review of the seminar by an attendee. I will not comment on this account, other than to say two things. First, many past attendees of this program have openly complained that the 5-day seminar is a waste of an otherwise excellent idea and opportunity. Specifically, attendees have complained that it is nothing more than a self-created opportunity for Hussein Ibish to dictate belligerently and endlessly, giving little to no opportunity for participants to chime in. "We weren't taught to lead, we were taught to follow Ibish's agenda," says one former attendee. My comment, there's no surprise here. Anybody who has seen Ibish publicly speak is aware of his inability to know when to shut up... I think even Ibish will admit this. Second, there is no excuse for Ibish's gay-bashing. What a shameful desecration of Dr. Maksoud's memory.Foundation for Arab-American Leadership:
Earlier this year, I attended the Hala Salaam Maksoud Foundation for Arab-American Leadership. The leadership training, led by American Task Force on Palestine's (ATFP) Hussein Ibish, promises to "identify, educate and motivate outstanding young individuals who demonstrate the promise of becoming tomorrow's Arab-American leaders." Those who attended the leadership training were a promising group of Arab-Americans who hope to have a positive impact on the future of the community. Unfortunately, I never got the chance to actually hear what this promising group had to say – about anything. Throughout the training, "discussion" was dominated by Ibish, with little room for participants to actually voice their ideas, concerns and thoughts about the Arab-American community.
I felt as though we were being told what to think and what to say – namely, what ATFP and Ibish have to think and say concerning Arab-American issues and current events in the Arab world. I was being trained to be a follower – to have no independent thought, no independent solutions, and certainly no independent voice of my own. These compromise the opposite of what many of us define as a "leader."
On Palestine…
The reading packet was mailed to each participant a week or so before the training and contained chapters on all the major issues of relevance to the Arab-American Community. Palestine, Iraq, War on Terror, Arab-American Civil Rights, and so on. I immediately flipped to the section on Palestine since being an activist for Palestine served as my pathway and first connection to the Arab-American activist community. Almost all the materials in the reading packet provided in the chapter on Palestine were ATFP material – with, thankfully, an excerpt from Edward Said’s "The Question of Palestine." This was especially troubling for me – why not include many great writers like Amira Hass, Joseph Massad, writers from Electronic Intifada, Uri Avnery, Bill and Kathleen Christenson and Jonathan Cook?
All of these writers come from various religious, ethnic and educational backgrounds but have one common goal – to open up debate about Zionism in the United States. To include only ATFP material along with Edward Said is to silence and exclude many other important voices and views in the Palestinian-Israeli discourse.
During the Training…
The Foundation's website promises that the training will drive leaders "to inspire positive change in the Arab-American community.” Ibish proceeded to do the complete opposite when he referred to and commented on the sexual orientation of a well-known professor who does extensive research and writing on the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. What does someone's sexual orientation have to do with his or her ability to constructively add to Palestinian-Israeli discourse? He also mentioned many other prominent members, institutions and organizations in the Arab-American community by name and proceeded to bad-mouth them and what they do.
If the training is meant to teach participants to be able to positively represent the community in public, trash-talking, putting other organizations down, and commenting on others’ sexuality is definitely not the way to do it! Not only is this unprofessional and inappropriate, but comments such as calling someone a “flaming homosexual” is a terrible way of exemplifying how to represent that Arab-American community. Inappropriate comments and attacks on other members of the community may also make participants hold back from speaking out. As an activist not only for issues of importance to the Arab-American community but also for Gender issues – this definitely kept me from wanting to participate in the training and, I thought, only added to some of the negative images that the issues the Arab-American community has to constantly fight – like misogyny and extremism.
The leadership training also promises to train leaders to be "committed to protecting the civil and political rights of Arab Americans". By the sound of Mr. Ibish's comments, it seems as though these rights are not protected, respected or advocated for if they happen to be a "flaming homosexual." As a leader of a training, you should be promoting open communication, unification and outlining common goals for the future leaders of the community.
Being Taught To Follow…
A perfect example of being taught to follow was the "discussion" on advocating for Palestine. It was not a discussion at all, but a lecture by Ibish basically outlining the agenda of the ATFP – an organization that does not enjoy the unanimous support of the Arab-American/Palestinian-American community. The first indication of this was that almost all of the materials in the reading packet provided in the chapter on Palestine were ATFP material. Since this conflict is central to Arab-American activism, discussion should have included what others in the group thought where appropriate and effective ways to advocate for Palestine.
I do not advocate for a Two-State Solution nor agree with the way ATFP is willing to negotiate the Right of Return for Palestinian refugees. After some of the comments Hussein made about other members of the community, I certaintely did not feel comfortable speaking up or sharing my views. There was no discussion on Zionism itself – which should be the root of any discussion about advocating for Palestine – whatever solution one chooses to advocate for. It is obvious that following in the footsteps of previous "leaders" in the Arab-American community is not working for the Palestinian cause here in the United States – so why are we being taught that these are the only things we should be advocating for? It was frustrating not being able to voice my opinion about what the different organizations were doing on behalf of Palestine, and even more frustrating not to be able to discuss with others in the group about what they think. Leadership is not dictating to others what they should think or feel about Palestine or any other topic.
I think the idea of an Arab-American leadership training is extremely valuable and definitely a need in the community. We need to empower and promote the next generation of Arab-American activists and leaders by encouraging their freethinking, imagination and passion for all the issues that are important to them. This is not done by putting others in the community down, commenting on their personal lives and sexual orientations or by attempting to silence the diverse views and ideas the community has. I have to look no further than my friends to see the next leaders of the Arab-American community – the doctors, lawyers, hip-hop artists, poets, performers, photographers, film-makers, writers, those planning the next big conference on Palestinian rights and those attending the best schools in the world and educating themselves– they are all representing themselves and the Arab-American community in the best way possible!
130 comments:
what's the deal with Ibish? Who used to be on TV all the time as a pundit, now he's nowhere to be seen?
What's his story? He seems like an interesting fellow to say the least
People got sick of him, for the reasons above.
should a complaint that strong, that names names, really be anonymous? for example, if someone made similar statements about you, wouldn't you want s/he to at least identify him/herself? where is the line drawn between sharing information for the purpose of encouraging discussion that leads to improvement of a problem vs. being a glorified rumor mill? i'm not angry, i'm concerned and ask out of genuine caring. i've seen the demoralizing effect anonymous second-hand complaints can have on the grassroots when it trickles down. problems shouldn't be hidden, but isn't there a way they can be addressed that includes construtive ideas for addressing the problems?
I very much agree with you. The contributor wanted to remain anonymous, so I respected that wish. But I did verify the account from multiple other attendees, for example:
1. His bashing of homosexuality; and
2. His forcing of the ATFP agenda.
If I was less than 100% sure that this account is completely factual, I would not have posted it. Thus the prudence in verifying with others.
Hello, I attended this. Hussein just sent an email telling us to post comments against this article. But I completely agree with it. Thank you for putting it.
for the record, i posted my comment above of my own accord.
does hussein ibish have a unique agenda? I'm not sure where this guys beliefs diverge from the grassroots supporters?
I attended the seminar as well and don't agree with what was said here. My group had many open and frank discussions on all the topics covered. There was never a time when any of us felt as though we couldn't say what was on our minds or disagree with Hussein in any way. In fact, some in my group did disagree with him on many issues and voiced their opinions. In that way, many of us got to know and respect each other, as well as learn from one another.
I have since been in contact with many people who also attended the seminar and have yet to meet ONE person who didn't think it was a worthwhile, informative learning experience. Aside from this, Hussein has always given ample opportunity for people to offer their opinions on the seminar and give feedback on what they believe could be done to make it more productive.
I can't speak to the comments that Hussein allegedly made during this particular session but I will say that in the session I attended there was no such language.
I too had the honor of knowing Hala Maksoud. I take extreme offense that anyone would say that this program "desecrates her memory". Where you get the audacity to make such a claim is beyond me, particularly since you have no frame of reference in terms of the substance of the Foundation. Whoever you spoke with is a disgruntled individual who obviously went into the program with a particular agenda.
Tony, as Hussein's friend, I'm sure you gladly complied with his email instructing you to write a comment here. But, let's try to be objective for a second. I think, at the least, trashing somebody because they're gay "desecrates her memory." Do you not agree?
Like I said above, I spoke with multiple former attendees who shared the sentiments reflected in the review.
Contrary to what you might believe Fadi, I actually did this of my own accord since I do how to think objectively. Perhaps you would prefer not to have any other dissenting opinions on this blog?
As I stated, I can't speak to what was or was not said in that particular seminar since I was not there. My comment was specific to my experience in the seminar.
I can't comment intelligently on this story, just wanted to mention as someone asked about Ibish's presence that he appeared on Colbert last week.
There has never been a single instance on this blog where we have not welcomed dissenting opinions. In fact, some of us that contribute to this blog often disagree openly on issues. Our comments section is open to any opinion, this is indisputable. If you've ever read this blog you may notice some of our most vocal commenters are right-wing Zionists here to badger us.
Any of Hussein's friends who were directed to this blog posting by an email Hussein has sent instructing your action, I have a simple question:
I think, at the least, trashing somebody because they're gay "desecrates her memory." Do you not agree?
ibish on colbert? wow, gotta see that!
I would absolutely agree if indeed that was the case. However, I have a hard time believing that that is indeed what took place. Since I don't know the person making the claims, nor do I know when they attended the seminar to verify this claim, I'm basing my judgment on what I personally experienced and what I know of Hussein. Both of which lead me to think this allegation is false.
I didn't take part in this leadership training program. In fact, I applied but was rejected. Weeks later I saw Ibish acting really belligerent at a DC bar -- shouting half-incoherent obscenities at no one in particular. I then decided my rejection was probably for the better. Having experienced that, it wouldn't surprise me in the least bit that Ibish poked fun of someone for being gay.
Still, I think Fadi is an ass. A rather large ass in fact. I'd rate him the worst blogger on this site, but for some reason only 15% of KABOBfest's readership seem to agree with me. If you hated this post, or just hate Fadi because he's not a gay professor, feel free to visit KABOBfestWATCH and vote in our poll: Which KABOBer Sucks the Most?
Hussein drunk and acting like a stupid child? Sounds about right.
My mother has worked with Ibish before, although she did not attend the event Fadi is writing about she has heard him rant about homosexuals once before--which infuriated her because her sister is a lesbian.
Fadi, with respect, you are exhibiting a bias here. Tony’s post offered a different perspective of the seminar and you took the opportunity to shun it, rather than create a productive dialogue of it. It seems you have the agenda. Secondly, for the post claiming Hussein sent an email asking us to write against this blog, this is simply wrong. Hussein’s email clearly asked “those who felt that this was a misrepresentation of the seminar experience” to post. So right off the bat, the credibility of Fadi and this poster are thrown into question as they have exhibited their own agenda in their own misrepresentations and unwillingness to entertain different perspectives.
That having been said, I do believe Fadi, that although I disagree with the anonymous posting and your conduct in dealing with comments, you have none the less opened a dialogue, one that should prove to be useful, and I commend you for that. As for my perception of the seminar, it seems the two major complaints have been the use of ATFP materials and accusations of “gay-bashing”.
With regard to the reading packet, I personally contacted Dr. Ibish before the seminar regarding what we were given to read. At that time I was informed that the readings, as most of us know, were a guideline, some background material, and we were more than welcome to read whatever we wanted and bring whatever knowledge to the seminar that we felt would contribute. With regard to these readings being ATFP materials. From my perspective, and of course those who wish to disagree are welcome to, I see no conflict of interest or problem in using ATFP materials. Whether one agrees or disagrees with the ATFP stance on issues, the fact remains that the organization is well versed in Middle East affairs. Their conclusions are of course based on their knowledge and interpretations of Hass, Massad, Avnery, Christenson and Cook among others. Now, if other viewpoints were quelled, then there is an issue of conflict of interest, I would certainly agree with that. However, in my personal experience, Dr. Ibish went out of his way to stop and repeatedly ask for questions, thoughts, differences of opinion. I disagreed with him on a number of issues, and never once felt the need to hesitate to speak. Furthermore, his reaction was to encourage us to speak up. On countless occasions, Dr. Ibish interrupted his own lecture to remind us “Again, these are not necessarily right, these are working ideas, they are works in progress” I invite all attendees to confirm or deny this statement was made several times throughout the 5 day seminar. The first time I heard Dr. Ibish say this was when I asked why the seminar and talking points were to be confidential. Because, he said, these are works in progress, these are not stated positions, these are ideas that we want to sit here and discuss and make better. At one point he even said and I cant quote here but I’ll paraphrase, he said that we may see problems in these positions that he doesn’t, and they need to be discussed. He then added that another reason this was confidential is because we need to explore all viewpoints, and that he wanted people to feel absolutely comfortable to voice any position so that we can discuss it. Again, this was reiterated throughout the 5 day seminar.
With regard to gay bashing and gender: to whomever wrote this anonymous review, I will say that I am also actively involved in challenging perceptions of gender, be they roles or stereotypes. I also feel that these issues should be confronted and they are a hazard to our society. Having said that, I commend you for speaking out and creating dialogue on the issue. I cannot confirm however, that I experienced any “gay bashing” during the seminar. Now, for those who did experience this, you are correct in speaking up, as I said, these are issues that should be discussed. But we are all adults, and this underhanded approach is counterproductive. Consider this, Dr. Ibish, whether you like him, or his positions, is among the most vocal and publicly recognized figures in Arab American discourse. We have all had the opportunity to engage in 5 days of dialogue with him. If you see a glaring problem, in the community’s most well known leader, and you truly care about change, then why not speak to Dr. Ibish directly? Why not go for the source?
Listen, it’s apparent that Fadi and the anonymous reviewer are passionately committed to the same causes we all care about. No one is attacking you, but you are adults. Anonymous reviewer, it’s up to you to voice your opinion during the seminar, and challenge Hussein if you disagree and by doing so contribute to an ongoing dialogue. You cannot cower at the time of action and then slip comments through the back door. No one is going to take you seriously. If you don’t feel strongly about something to put your face to it, then I don’t feel strongly about it either. If you were debating someone on television and he/she were saying things you completely disagreed with, would you sit quietly and then post comments on a blog? This is ridiculous. Fadi, as for you, your intention is well received and we have a good discussion going here. But I would say this, you have granted yourself some freedom by posting on a “blog”, but if you truly wish to make an impact and write pieces that challenge authority and get people talking, then you need to do better than behave like an angry kid with a vendetta. I’m sorry man, but your bias really shows in your response to Tony, I mean it’s so telling, you could see right through you. I would not be surprised if you received positive reactions from some people and simply chose not to include them in your post (though I am not accusing you of such). You should have attended a seminar yourself, and then written, using the anonymous review just as well. At least you could have then stood by your claims. And assuming the anonymous reviewer and others had this experience then the most they can claim is that they disagreed with Ibish’s views. By all means, there is nothing wrong with that, in fact as I said he encouraged it. But since you chose at the time to be quiet, you cannot make claims on his interaction with people.
Finally, with regards to leadership. The seminar is run in two rounds, you want more leadership skills then attend the second. And with regards to the attacks on Hussein, lets not forget that Dr. Maksoud, who we all agree was a great person, held Hussein as a dear friend. There is no innocence by association, but one would think she wouldn’t associate with the person you seem to be describing.
Now, as always, this post is open for discussion, and just to get things rolling….anonymous poster, how do you suggest a one state solution would work? Perhaps you’re willing to speak your mind in this forum since no one can see you or know who you are. I for one would like to have this discussion as I am afraid you may somehow reach a larger audience and damage our cause.
And another thing, Fadi, since you claim to care about Arab American Issues, let me give you a bit of advice, it is of course yours to do as you please. But I would shy away from illustrating scewering the heads of the top US presidential candidates on a kabob stick. Seriously, how did that pass your mental check system....oh
I attended Hussein Ibish's seminar traning,and i don't understand where this attack on Hussein and the Hala Maksoud foundation( because you are attacking the foundation when you say that you didn't benifit from it, and this discourages people from applying) comes from.
I attended the whole week, and not once did I feel like I was being fed someone else's agenda. On the contrary, I felt like I was given opportunity to give my opinion,even when it was contrary to Hussein point of view. It was a VERY open forum.
As for the gay-bashing, I have NEVER heard Hussein anything to that effect, actully he recommended a couple of books on the issue of homosexuality in the Middle East.
I just wanted to write, using my name, and set the record stright.It was a great seminar, and I benefited from it immensely.
Thank you all for posting (especially all you friends of Ibish).
Nabil, I'm not interested in opening up a dialogue on whether gay-bashing is a desecration of Dr. Maksoud's memory. As is clear from my introductory comments, I explicitly cited Hussein's homophobic comments alone as the desecration of Dr. Maksoud's legacy. Accordingly, this is what Tony addressed ("I take extreme offense that anyone would say that this program "desecrates her memory"), and from my perspective, there is no discussion that should be opened on whether gay-bashing under Dr. Maksoud's name is a desecration of her legacy. Heck, do it here if you want, but I'm not participating in such an absurd and offensive discussion. From where I stand, such gay-bashing ALONE is reprehensible and a desecration of her legacy. My mind will not be changed on this matter. If you disagree, this is your right, but just because I'm shunning his perspective, doesn't mean I'm stifling discussion. I'm not the end-all, be-all here. Btw, regarding his email, the totality of his email is a sad appeal for you all to come to his defense - I'm not going to enter a lexical debate on the precise wording of his email. I appreciate your loyalty. But at the end of the day, your issue with me has to do with my chastising Ibish (not the Seminar) for his homophobic comments. I encourage you to reread my introduction to the post ("Second, there is no excuse for Ibish's gay-bashing. What a shameful desecration of Dr. Maksoud's memory").
Any other points of discussion (for example, Hussein's pushing of his/ATFP agenda) has in no way been curtailed here. I encourage such discussion. But, again, I emphasize, on the issue of whether gay-bashing is a desecration of her memory, I strongly stand against such a discussion. Feel free to discuss this matter all you want here on the comments board - you wont be censored. But do not expect me to participate with you.
I find the image of candidate's heads being skewered amusing. In fact, many of our readers do. Most don't care. Some think it's stupid. Is there anything else you want to discuss about this. If you want, email or post suggestions. Can you please explain what a "mental check system" is though?
I just attended the seminar recently, and I completely disagree. I thought the seminar was very useful and educational. It's upto an individual to make the best out of it, Dr. Ibish never said you have to agree and/or support his opinion. You should be thankful that there is such program, for free, that actually teaches young Arab Americans what actions to take to improve Arab Americans issues.
This is exactly the kind of vitriol that keeps the Arab American community divided. And, Anonymous, if you have such serious charges to make against Ibish, the least you could do is own up to them by using your real name. Otherwise, this is a classic example of targeting an innocent recipient without ever taking responsibility. Allow me to set the record straight about Ibish, ATFP, and Hala Salaam Maksoud, a group of people that, despite my strong disagreements with, have advanced the cause of the Arab American community like few others have. And, they did not do it anonymously; they actually had the courage to stand up, to be constructive instead of destructive. As someone who has been in the seminar to conduct research on the Arab Lobby and US Foreign Policy, I could say with certainty that discussion was open minded and informative. Hussein conducted himself with courtesy and a respect for the inherent dignity of every argument, even if it was noxious to his advocacy. Now, as to the specific charges, I will address them one by one even as many of them do not even warrant a response.
Dr. Hala’s Legacy
Hussein has done everything within his strength to empower American Arabs, just as Dr. Maksoud wanted, even to the point of where it has brought him all sorts of attacks from outside of the community and from within as was done by Fadi and Anonymous. He is one of the best spokespersons we have. And, if anyone has a problem with him, let that person step up to the plate of Dr. Maksoud’s legacy.
Shutting Down Discussion/Using only ATFP Material
As someone that has many issues with ATFP and its two-state solution message, but having been acquainted with the Leadership seminars, I have seen nothing to indicate a lack of respect for any point of view—two state or one. Lest we forget Hussein has many close friends that advocate for a variety of solutions to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. I have heard him on numerous occasions emphatically point out that we have to help end the occupation, regardless of our intent or means.
Homosexuality and other Social Issues
Hussein, the ATFP, and everyone in between invite speakers and participants without discrimination on the basis of race, class, national origin, gender, or sexual orientation. This makes him and them more progressive and inclusive than the 1964 Civil Rights Act.
In conclusion, this hyperbole needs to stop. And, if we are going to carry on an honest discussion, the least people could do is to own up to their comments and cease from making ad homonym attacks on Ibish or anyone else for that matter, anonymous or not. This is not helpful for the Arab American community. Right now, the only people that are doing anything for Arab Americans are the objects of attack by Anonymous and others of his ilk. I hope that we could carry on a conversation that is civil, and that is helpful to our cause, regardless of our intellectual precommitments.
Best,
Khalil Marrar
What happened in Palestine and the rise of Hamas was proceeded by a similar phenomenon in the USA with the rise of CAIR (Council of American Islamic Relations) at the expense of the secular but increasingly politically corrupt ADC. When Mr. Asali took over ADC after Hala Maksoud passed away, things went horribly wrong. Young Arab-Americans were so disappointed with ADC's questionable positions on the right of return and their cozying up to arab dictators and their money they decided to abandon ADC in favor of CAIR. years later, secular Palestinians dumped Fatah in the polls and voted Hamas to humiliate Abu Mazen's thugs and their horrific corruption, political and economic.
It seems secular Arab institutions, in the Arab world or in the diaspora have ran out of steam and no longer inspire or speak on behalf the younger generations because of their corruption. We see it in Turkey, Iraq, Jordan, Egypt, , and on and on.
Hussein Ibish is an extension of ATFP which is an extension of Abu Mazen's corrupt political agenda to liquidate the right of return and to denounce the resistance.
I doubt Arabs are becoming more religious, but we are so utterly disgusted with secular institutions that the prevailing attitude is anti-establishment at any cost.
The sad part is that secular institutions are not learning any lessons.
"Homosexuality and other Social Issues
Hussein, the ATFP, and everyone in between invite speakers and participants without discrimination on the basis of race, class, national origin, gender, or sexual orientation. This makes him and them more progressive and inclusive than the 1964 Civil Rights Act."
That doesn't excuse his anti-gay commentaries.
What is the problem with the American Task force on Palestine agenda? How and why do their views make pepole so mad? Doesn't everyone have the same end goals here?
Listen Khalil, I agree with most of what you're saying. As a side note, I spoke out when Ibish and some of his extreme-left counterparts resorted to the tactic of personal attacks. I spoke out when leaders and spokespeople in our community were smeared as being supporters of Hamas simply because they did not tow the ATFP line. I don't believe in such attacks. But when I'm presented first-hand testimony that he's bashing homosexuals (and once i verified), this is conduct that I believe needs to be brought to the fore. I will not be silent for the sake of avoiding unpleasant inner-community disputes. Homophobia is a serious problem in the Arab community; it's a problem that needs to be addressed openly. At the least, I think that all of you friends of Ibish can agree that bashing others in the community (or outside of the community) due to their sexual orientation is inexcusable.
It is easy to bash people for posting anonymously. But on some of these issues which are sensitive in our community it is understandable. How do we know if the person who made the report (which Fadi verified) did not feel personally threatened by Ibish's behavior? I mean people kept silent for years after being abused by Priests. If someone feels threatened by someone with more power you cannot demand they give their full name and identity. People like Ibish who claim to be "leaders" in the community should be held accountable.
But you have ZERO evidence of this supposed gay-bashing, unless it is these anonymous allegations that have no credibility at all. You call him homophobic, because you claim someone told you so? Give me a break! Is there anything published, said in public, or documented by someone willing to take the minimal responsibility of simply identifying themselves? It seems there is not. This is a very serious accusation, but your basis for making it does not even rise to the level of rumor. It is garbage, pure and simple, and you should be ashamed of yourself.
Notice now how all the other charges have been dropped and all we have is Hussein Ibish being a homophobe. This is disgusting. You have to do a little better than this. I demand an apology to Hussein for such libel.
I just went through the most recent session of the seminar, and I want to emphasize that intelligent people should have the ability to discern a distinction between legitimate and reasonable criticism of Hussein Ibish and the seminar on the one hand (& I certainly have some criticism), and mindless disparagement of Ibish and the program on the other.
It is true that we did have a couple of candid discussions about named individuals who committed strategic errors in dealing with the media, but it would be inaccurate to say that Ibish was "bad-mouth[ing]" them. In fact, with a particular individual's pathetic media performance, Ibish went out of his way to ensure the anonymity of the individual, removing all potentially alluding references to the person's identity from the transcript of the interview handed to us. That Ibish was critical or dismissive of someone you happen to like (he certainly was of some people that I happen to like) is no grounds for asserting that he was badmouthing people.
As for Palestine, of course there is an ATFP bias. I work with an organization which Ibish thinks is completely ineffective. Despite my obvious disagreement with Ibish here, I wasn't surprised that he would try to promote the ideas that he thought were useful. If you attended an Al-Awda workshop, you'd get an Al-Awda bias; and if you attended an AIPAC seminar, you'd get an AIPAC bias; and so on. It is up to us individual activists to go around seeking information from different sources, instead of criticizing a particular education source for agreeing with itself. That's just not a serious grievance!
As for the "gay" thing, I saw no indication whatsoever that Ibish was hostile to homosexuals or gay rights. I would have to know the context of the alleged comments to discern whether the "trashing" of someone for being gay had taken place. But given the excessively negative and hyperbolic nature of the anonymous blogger's account, I'm not sure his/her word would settle this.
There is certainly a lot more out-there beyond this seminar that is worth learning and exploring. But if you leave the seminar with the idea that what Ibish offered you has somehow completed your educational training and that you must now follow only and all that was taught at the seminar, then the problem is with you and not the seminar. If one were to look at the seminar objectively, there is no question that, all together, it is was very interesting, thought-provoking, useful, and worth the time commitment.
Fadi is a lawyer and a trusted person in the community. I assume he knows the legal consequences of making a report he knows to be false. He received a report from a person he knows. He verified it with several people. The person who made the report probably has a well-founded fear of the consequences of revealing their name. To me that is a credible report. Now if the person gave their name would it make the report more credible? I am not sure it would. Given ATFP's history of corruption, lying, distortion and slander I am more inclined to believe and trust Fadi.
Omar, since you were at the sessions, can you confirm or deny that Hussein used the term "flaming homosexual" to describe someone, as the original posting claims. Either this is true or it isn't true. Can you shed some light on whether he used those words?
No, I didn't hear Hussein using the term.
Ah the Kabobfest mantra:
ATFP = Spawn of Satan!! Corruption! Lies! Lackeys of Abu Mazen!!
Where's the proof ya jackasses!?!
What a bunch of whiny self-righteous jerkoffs.
Several weeks ago, Fadi broke the story (which was also based on unnamed sources) that Rafi Dajani, executive director of ATFP, was fired from his post for financial corruption. The story was largely ignored until a couple weeks later ATFP admitted that the accusation was true.
I'm sorry, but at this point KABOBfest has more credibility than ATFP and its chronies.
Where can you even begin with ATFP? Look at the article on the site now. They say "Since Hamas took over Gaza in June 2007 in a bloody coup, the security situation between Gaza and Israel has been worsening." Ok, so they have been saying that Hamas carried out a "coup" since June to cover up for the Dahlan gangs attempted coup against Hamas. But to keep saying this after the whole game was exposed in Vanity Fair is just pathetic. I hope that Abbas, Dahlan, Fayyad and the other American stooges and thieves will be as loyal to ATFP as ATFP is loyal to them. I don't think so. Then they always put on their site the polls that show when Abbas and Fateh are more popular. Did you notice they did not put the one today that shows most Palestinians think Hamas is the legitimate government and Haniya is more popular than Abbas or Fayyad. And then you get a stronger condemnation of Israeli human rights abuses from the State Department than you do from ATFP. It's sad really that Hussein used to defend the Palestinian rights and now he works for this outfit. It seems ATFP's main concern is for Asali to be photographed kissing Condi. ATFP=neocons, opportunists, and yes, until they fired Dajani, THIEVES. No wonder they love Dahlan and Abbas.
Khalil, like I said, discussion on the methods used by Hussein in this Seminar is more than welcome. In fact, such discussion has taken place. Certainly some people will appreciate his style (as we have seen), and some thought of it as a complete waste of time (as we have also seen). Khalil, respectfully, I'm not sure you understand the definition of libel; such an accusation has been completely misused here.
In regards to the gay-bashing, yes, I've focused on this matter. I've focused on this matter because a number of you have focused on this matter with your declarations that Dr. Maksoud's memory has not been desecrated. At this point, this seems to be the most contentious issue. So I will continue to ask, is gay-bashing a desecration of Dr. Maksoud's legacy?
I was at the last session, and there was noone named Omar Baddar there. You can see the list of Seminar participants on the Hala Maksoud website, and there is no Omar Baddar. Omar Baddar does not exist (at least not in the last session). Omar Baddar is probably Hussein Ibish using an alias. Nice try.
Maybe Hussein did not comment on other people's sexuality during other sessions but he definitely did during ours. This was not written to begin a discussion about bashing Hussein or calling him a homophobe - it is an honest opinion, which we are all entitled to about what someone experienced during the training.
Are we not permitted to discuss our thoughts on what makes a good leadership training? Trying to open up discussion about these things in the community is important but i think always misconstrued as divisive. The whole point of the essay was to point out that things Hussein said were divisive to the community.
And ATFP thing aside - the point is that there was no real discussion on Palestine.
The website says
Full Round 1 Seminars:
March 12-16 (Wednesday-Sunday)
http://www.halafoundation.org/upcoming.php
That means that the last session ended yesterday, and the list of participants is obviously not yet posted. So most likely Omar Baddar does exist and he was at the last session.
What is up with this breathless rush to declare that people don't exist and that they are other people using aliases? Isn't all of this kind of paranoid?
Like it was said, at the session during which Hussein Ibish did make these comments, Omar Baddar was not a participant. So if he does exist, his testimony is irrelevant to what happened on that occasion, described above.
A LOT OF US HAD PROBLEMS WITH HUSSEIN IBISH AT THE SEMINAR. BUT WE COULDN'T TELL TO HIM BECAUSE HE MADE US SEND FEEDBACKS STRAIGHT TO HIM WITHOUT ANONYMOUS PROCESS. IT WAS WASTE OF TIME.
Let's see, Ibish has not denied making the comment. Multiple people who were there have confirmed it. This is a closed case. Shame on you Hussein Ibish.
Fadi, there is a misunderstanding. I don't believe I ever advocated for opening a discussion on gay bashing. It's unfair of you to say claim this is what I am suggesting. You seem like a stand up guy, so I'm assuming it was a simple miscommunication. Open a dialogue on the positives and negatives of the Hala Foundation seminars, teaching styles, etc. Yes. This is what I was going for. There should also be a dialogue on whether or not Hussein has exhibited this behavior. To be sure, if accusations like this are made against someone an honest and fair dialogue as to their truth is certainly deserved. No one, especially myself, feels the need to discuss whether it is a desecration of Hala's legacy. By all means gay bashing is. But whether gay bashing occurred is an issue to take up. And on that issue we have nothing but the opinions and views of those who attended. We do not disagree here as to the severity to homophobic statements. I assure you.
I did find it offensive that you immediately dismissed Tony's comment as being simply out of loyalty, and I maintain that this is unfair. However, I have no issue with you, and my response to this post was not to come to the defence of Ibish, I was simply sharing my experience with the Hala Foundation. I don't find it absurd that Hussein would ask people to comment on this post. Personally, perhaps he could use it as a tool to help himself, it helps to know what others think, and otherwise many of us would not have been made aware of the post. But, as you granted me, so are you entitled to your own opinion, and neither am I the be all and end all.
As for the skewering. Funny perhaps. But my personal opinion is that it gives moron outsiders ammunition to claim that you, and arab americans associated with you are america hating jihadists who make cartoons skewring our politicala leaders heads. Is this stupid? Of course. Its completely ridiculous. But people will do it and people will buy it. And that hurts your cause, and our collective cause. You know what you're doing, this is not meant to condescend or patronize, just be careful, assholes will "skewer" you for this, regardless of your intentions.
So, if you care to discuss the use of ATFP materials, or one state two state solutions...etc...great... I would like to get angry about you stating that I am defending gay bashing, but I feel its more important to set the record stright that this was never my intention. My post again, was simply a different attendees experience. Look forward to more posts and continued discussion.
And yes, I do feel its wrong to take the statements of a few people who claim that gay bashing did occur and accept it as true, and then when people say they did not experience that, to say that they are being blindly loyal. Its insulting. Whats at issue here are two things. One is valuing some reports over others. The other is that discussing whether gay bashing did occur means that one is defending it. Whether those who you cited are true or not. My response was to describe my experience, and then add that I experienced none of this homophobia. But you are changing the discussion. If I say I have no problem with the way Hussein conducted the seminar and felt it was useful, then you cannot logically draw the conclusion that I defend gay bashing and feel that its not even a desecration to Dr Maksoud. You're assuming I had the same experience as someone else, but only I didn't take offense to it. You see, you're changing the whole argument. You are countering me with something that I agree with you on, everyone agrees with you on, but it doesn't address what I was taking issue with. Is this fair? Do you understand where I am coming from?
Nabil, with all due respect: like I said, more than welcome to have these above-listed discussions. I challenge you to provide me an instance where I've stifled such discussion. In fact, we frequently have these discussions on this blog. You're free to have them here as well.
But in so doing, we simply cannot dismiss the most heinous act here. That is Ibish's gay-bashing under Dr. Maksoud's name. Such a desecration of her memory. I invite Ibish and all of his friends to address his gay-bashing under Dr. Maksoud's name. This should outrage all of us. As his friends, I sincerely hope that you encourage him to apologize at the least. But I implore you, step back, look at this objectively, and please try to understand the the seriousness of his actions and subsequent outrage a lot of us have. To abuse the position he was in, the legacy of Dr. Maksoud, to badmouth others, talk about their sexuality and bash them accordingly... so juvenile and simply inexcusable. I cannot think of a more despicable act in this context. Because so many of us cannot just ignore this, does not mean we are curbing discussion on other issues presented above. By all means, feel free to have these discussions.
This whole thing is completely ridiculous. On the one hand you have one person who claims that Ibish made a remark that they took as ”gay-bashing,“ but they do not say who they are or identify themselves. There is no basis for evaluating this claim since it is made without evidence and without even attribution. Its just posted anonymously on the internet. Meanwhile, a sizable group of people who have signed their statements have said that they saw no signs of “gay-bashing" from Ibish and that they liked the whole event. Let's see: one anonymous person versus many identified people. Its not hard to decide which of these two presents a more serious case. Plus, there is an obvious anger about ATFP's positions on Palestine, which provides ample ulterior motives for some people to post up any number of slanders and fake claims, especially if they can do it without saying who they are. This is really, really disgusting.
Judging by hussein's reaction of course no one would come out and say their name! all the feedback at the end of the program we had to send directly to him so of course you can't say what you actually think or things that you think you would want to say someone about inappropriate comments.
he definitely did make those comments about people's homosexuality during our training - if he didn't say it during others that's really good. It doesn't discredit someone's story at all.
It's good that everyone is sharing their experiences with the seminar - that's the whole point. to open up discussion. it was not all bad but the point is that the things that went on and were said were inappropriate and should be discussed.
At this point, nobody (including Hussein) who was at that relevant seminar has denied the occurrence of his gay-bashing. As Hussein knows, I believe it was the last seminar prior to the one that took place last week. Respectfully, we need to acknowledge the gravity of his behavior. We must no longer accept gay-bashing and homophobia in our community. I understand the repercussions of my behavior if I'm just making all this up (must I remind you that I am a lawyer). And I do recall that Ibish is well-versed on the laws regarding libel (Horowitz incident). So I take every precaution to make sure that what I pass on is fact. Thus the prudence when I was the first to disclose Rafi Dajani as a crook, and in verifying Ibish's inappropriate gay-bashing. I leave it up to you, the readers, to decide who to believe. But to his friends, I strongly implore you to encourage him to apologize (particularly to the participants of that Seminar). He knows who they are.
Just to put in my two sense worth. I have heard, many critique of ATFP and Hussein himself. But I think this crosses a line. I attended an earlier session, as have several of my friend. AND I haven't heard anyone bash the foundation yet. I have, on the other hand, heard constructive criticism, and Hussein has always asked us to be open about them with him. "Desecrating Hala Maksoud's Memory" is an opinion that many of us who have attended the session disagree with. As is evident from the comments.
The main issue seems to be HI's apparent homophobic comments? And while I can not believe he would have said it at the session. I can imagine some of his comments being misconstrued. I don't think it is fair to roast him in the court of public opinion on a comment made behind closed door, with no one willing to call him out on it. If it is as important as you Fadi, the person should stand up and be counted.
As for the accusation of induction into the ATFP way of thinking, this is a complete bollocks. "trained to be a follower" really?!?!?! I have some very strong disagreements both with Hussein and other members of my session. In fact we had a running debate, which Hussein thought was irrelevant but didn't stop us from cont. We got sidetracked so any times that we had to rush through some of the topics he wanted to cover. I have to say, I was a little nervous to speaking my mind at first, but quickly got over it. The point of the session was to give us the information. I think it is assumed that we can critically analyze the info and make up our own minds.
I think Hussein can be very outspoken about his opinions, and is normally paid to do so. But at our session, I felt he was very reserved, and allowed us to lead the discussions. From what I have gathered from other friends who have attended, each session has it's own dynamics and norms. You are in close quarters 8 hrs a day for 5 days with a small group of people. The characteristics of the individuals in each session, have a lot to do with the dynamic of that session. If you are willing to put your thoughts on the table, I can't imagine Hussein silencing them. But if you are just to afraid to speak up, that isn't his fault.
I think that it is unfair to stand on the sideline and criticize.
Hussein Ibish is a mean, mean person. I wanted so desperately to "work" with him, but I found him to be the most arrogant person I've ever encountered.
The training was a complete waste of time - I'd do anything to get it back. Why does the ATFP employ him?
My personal favorite was his demand that all graduates "raise" $1000 by the end of 2007. Are you kidding me? I paid HOW MUCH to come to D.C. to listen to that man bad mouth people in MY Arab community, not to mention the other people at my training session (I feel bad for the people who came in late, who, by the way, he totally and completely bashed!)? No discussion - he just sprung it on us as if it's OUR job to subsidize his lifestyle. Do some real work "man" if you want to make a living.
That man is about as inappropriate (I have zero desire to hear about his sexual escapades, thank you very much), unprofessional (oh - the filthy language he uses!) and insensitive as any person I've ever met.
Hussein Ibish disgusts me. So Oprah isn't worth fighting, but defending his honor is? Puh-leeze. I hope he goes down in flames. We all know he deserves it.
I don't think we should ignore it just because it happened behind closed doors. Behind the closed doors he has a responsibility; he decided to insult somebody due to their sexual preference. He did this in somebody else's name (Hala Maksoud). We should all be outraged, he's not excused because he did it in closed door. In that position, he has responsibility, and he did not live up to it. Why are you afraid to condemn it? i don't get it, that it happened behind closed doors so we should just ignore? Why do we care so little about gay rights that we are so easily willing to just ignore? That's wrong. Shame on all of us.
It was around this time, under the leadership and inspiration of Dr. Maksoud, that I became an active participant in Arab-American advocacy.
Fadi, is that what you call what you do? Arab-American advocacy? I thought you were a Palestinian activist? Or do you consider them to be the same thing? Because I personally doubt that you will (or even possibly COULD) make things better for Arab-Americans by being a propagandist for Palestinians. You are more likely to have the exact opposite effect, if any. Imagine some American-Arabs (if there is even such a thing?) living in an Arab country and constantly advocating for Israel. They would become intensely popular individuals, correct? Same thing.
Anonymous,
what's the deal with Ibish? Who used to be on TV all the time as a pundit, now he's nowhere to be seen?
Right after 0/11 I recall four Arab/Muslim commentators being invited to make the rounds on American cable news a LOT. Mona Eltahawy, some woman named Sarah who was one of the founders (I think) of CAIR, this guy Insane Rubbish, and woman who always wore a mini-skirt and worked for the Al Hayat DC Bureau (I think). I don't remember her name because she was the first to get dis-invited. Of these 4, only Mona Eltahawy spoke logically and persuasively. I wish the American news networks invited her to appear on shows more often. Good riddance to the rest, they are/were as nutty as the KABOBfest crew.
mado I said "I don't think it is fair to roast him in the court of public opinion on a comment made behind closed door with no one willing to call him out on it."
This comment was supposedly made in a session were privacy is expected. We were all told that everything said in the session was confidential. The point of closing the door was for everyone to feel free to say what they want. And i like that policy, it allows us to forget politically correct and get to the meat of the issues. Kinda like post anonymously on a blog.
But I wasn't even saying that he shouldn't be responsible for what he says. I am saying that we shouldn't bash him if the accuser isn't willing to stand up. My personal experience tells me he isn't a homophobe. And i can't respond to a comment I have no bases to believe. I am not saying that Fadi is a liar, but context is everything. And we have no context in which to judge this comment.
Hi "CAUGHT!,"
That was a very hasty title to award yourself. Maybe if you had paid attention during the media training portion of that seminar session you attended, you would've known better than to make an ALL CAPS allegation followed by an exclamation mark in a public forum before you had thoroughly investigated the facts!
But humor aside, I'm the Executive Director of the Massachusetts Chapter of ADC (Feel free to Google my name and give me a call for further verification of my existence), and I did attend the last session that ended yesterday, March 16th.
Indeed, it may be true that the allegation may have occurred during a different seminar session than the one I attended, so I don't know if it's a fabrication. But if I were to tell you that George Bush had said "death to Christians" at some rally, you wouldn't need to have been there to reasonably conclude that the quote is either utterly fabricated or taken severely out of context. This is only an extreme example to make a point. On similar grounds, I can only tell you about my impression of Hussein Ibish, and he doesn't strike me as someone who would insult another on the basis of their sexual orientation. It just seems far fetched to me.
But I'm really not interested in quibbling over a quote. I simply want to make the broader point that while it may be reasonable to be critical of Hussein's style or have reservations on the content of the seminar or the extent of its diversity, what is unreasonable is to judge a seminar with someone as experienced and skilled in handling the media as Hussein to be a complete waste of time. That seems transparently disingenuous.
It is understandable that some will love the seminar, others will hate it, and most will fall somewhere on the spectrum in between; and I certainly wouldn't expect a consensus around my particular opinion of the seminar (see my post from above for that). I'm merely favoring a more serious critique and discussion of the seminar than the mudslinging offered here.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to actually spend some time attempting to advance the causes we all seem to care about.
Fadi,
I fear that by anonymously outing a homophobe the homophobe may anonymously out the homosexual. This is a dangerous game that could drag in personal lives that might be peripherally allied with you.
Perhaps drafting a declaration that denounces homophobia, honestly addressing the real cultural/religious issues impeding such efforts could be a start. Garner support, get Ibish to sign. What's the point of outing him if you can openly/publicly give him the opportunity to denounce what he might have said without humiliating him . Unless the point is to get him to admit to this in order to humiliate him. But my hope is that your ultimate goal is to move the community forward on this issue.
this is so ugly......
Hussein Ibish is a political hack and a sellout. If I wanted to attend a seminar like this, I may as well go on a birthright trip to Israel, because that's essentially what his so-called pragmatist agenda will leave the Palestinian people with.
As for his gay bashing, he's already sold out Palestine for elitism, so it is not surprising he'd sell out decency for a few chuckles and to denigrate someone who has done more for Palestine in one day of writing than he has done in his whole career.
To be fair, I'm not sure if Ibish is a bigot in this regard, which makes it all the more troubling. Unfortunately, in our society it has become ok to "joke" about people based on sexuality. But if one were to take his comments and replace it with an ethnicity or religion (e.g. Black, Mexican, Muslim), one could easily detect how offensive it is. I think this posturing is careless and perpetuates a clear double standard in our society. Ibish is a joke on policy and political commentary. He does not need to bring bigotry into the mix.
"referred to and commented on the sexual orientation of a well-known professor" does not equal gay bashing or homophobia. Come off your self righteous high horse...
I think that you are bating us in to attacking him, when even the anonymous poster doesn't accuse him of it. You should be ashamed of yourself.
In a blogasphere that relishes the none politically correct. I want to ask you, what dictates gay bashing?
If I call you an idiot, am I arab bashing. If I point to a black man and call him black is that racist. If I say I disagree with every word you write while mentioning that you are a man am I misandrist.
NO!!!
You want a open discussion of homophobia in our community. It should begin with our acceptance that calling someone gay isn't an insult.
I think you just took the opportunity to attack someone you didn't like anyway.
Arab Americans (ATFP, AAI, CAIR, etc. etc. etc.) and Palestinians have for a long time advocated the slaughter of all gays, Jews and Christians in the USA and everywhere. Once the State of Israel, the USA, and the rule of law are exterminated, you Arabs will attempt to impose sharia. I hope you will succeed in killing yourselves.
A world without Arabs would be a world without terror. God Bless the State of Israel.
Death to Hezbollah
Death to Hamas
Death to Arab Americans
who speak evil of gays, Jews and Christians.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HlaVpqUXF0
As a recent attendee of the program...
As Arab American activists, our public actions, public rhetoric, and other of the such should have some serious consideration as to "how it affects our community". This is a plea from one Arab American to our community; journalists, bloggers, and the likes.
I truly believe that the desecration of the Hala Maksoud Foundation is in the sheer titling of this post. This could very well have been a "what do you think of the program by the foundation" or some other crafty and catchy phrases.
Dr. Ibish did not exactly blog his way into Dr Maksoud's selection, nor did he mistakenly stumble into the offices on Connecticut ave; he was Dr. Maksoud's selection based on the man's credentials and other factors that she felt were important to carry her work. As such, the leadership program is vetted and been exposed, almost publicly to suggestions and criticism, to which extent many have been incorporated to make the program what it is today. By that, it will surely continue to evolve!
I am a recent attendee of the program, and very much appreciated the opportunity to interact and be exposed to the principles of advocacy, its general history and its past and current actors. In that context, those are the principle makings of leadership within our community.
The oath taken under which this program is conducted is "what is said in this room, stays in this room". This is essentially what is communicated to participants, and moreover, the speakers during the seminar.
Mr. Fadi: It seems that you achieved your purpose of attracting personal attention, albeit on the world wide web, to an otherwise honest attempt to make a difference in this community. I am sure had you have directed feedback to Mr. Ibish's in an effort to garner a bit more context, your post would have better served the greater purpose.
I walk away shaking my head...
Naw:
Calling someone a "flaming homosexual" in that context is a bigoted comment. If you can't see that, you are delusional. It's not to say that he is a bigot, possibly an insensitive opportunist, but the comment itself is wrong, and not taken out of context (he was making fun of someone based on their sexuality). If you were to call someone a "stupid towelhead," you would be a bigot.
Marck: All this crap about "unity" for the sake of unity is silly. If I disagree with you, why should we band together? Because we're both Arab. Fouad Ajami is Lebanese. Should I join hands with him because we're both Arab. Or should I join hands Ilan Pappe who holds the same principles as me? Common sense says opt for the latter.
Politics of fear
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article9028.shtml
The Palestinians are some of the most talented, best educated, and hardest working people in the Midd