Those poor Israeli soldiers, eh? Dealing with civilian protestors from Nil’in objecting to the theft of their land for the benefit of illegal settlements, the soldiers are becoming increasingly frustrated at the villagers refusal to just shutup and give in.
So they shoot them.
Last week imaged were broadcast around the world of an Israeli soldier shooting Ashraf Abu Rahmeh in the foot as he was bound and blindfolded and held by a lieutenant. Claiming that the soldier in question does NOT represent the astronomically high ethics of the Israeli Occupation Forces, the Israeli authorities promptly returned him back to his unit in Nil’in.
Yesterday, one of his comrades, doubtless inspired by the impunity presented to the army to carry out any abuses it wished, went further, shooting 10 year old Ahmad Moussa in the forehead.
There have been over 70 Palestinian children killed by Israeli soldiers in this year alone.
Related posts:
- Footage of Israeli Soldiers Beating Palestinian Children
- 2 captured Israeli soldiers still alive
- Israel kills kids in the West Bank too
- The most moral army in the world
- Palestinian Women Stop Israeli Army
http://lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com/news/2008/08/everybodys-children-matter.html
An example of an Israeli settler killing an 11 year old Palestinian; by beating him to death with the butt of his gun and he got off with six month community service.
Posted by Anonymous | August 3, 2008, 12:53 pmIsrael snipers do shoot kids on purpose
This statement is not supported by facts, and is thus not legitimate. You use Islamist and Palestinian propaganda to justify your viewpoint. If you can’t demonstrate a minimal of credibility in exposing your views, they are not worth commentary. I’m sure Hitler had his rationalizations, as do you, but that did not make his quest to kill millions legitimate, and neither is yours.
their orders allow them to shoot any child above the age of 12
What is reprehensible is that Palestinians would employ their children in committing war crimes.
Palestinian children ‘dream
of martyrdom’:
Arab psychologist says more than half want to strap on bombs
In two separate incidents this month, armed Palestinian youths have infiltrated Jewish communities in the Gaza Strip
Palestinian kids raised for war: Taught to hate, kill Jews through ‘Sesame Street’-type TV show
Jerusalem cleric praises child ‘sacrifices’: ‘The younger the martyr, the greater and the more I respect him’
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=22856">Palestinian TV urging
children to kill Dead 12-year-old in paradise beckons kids to martyr themselves
Hillary decries brainwash of child ‘martyrs’: Senate panel watches video evidence of Palestinian indoctrination
Palestinians glorify child ‘martyrs’: Mother only wishes a different son had died
Kids get martyr message in music video: Palestinian release coincides with textbook teaching children to aid terrorists
Mom of martyr: Sacrifice more of my children: See clip of women celebrating, praising Allah for death of sons
By the way, I would like to applaud you for caring so deeply about Palestinian children. Perhaps you will join me, then, in condemning the alarming gendercide of women, particularly young girls, in the West Bank and Gaza. We’re at an average of 32 official “honor killings” per year, as of 2007, although I’ve seen unofficial estimates running into 90 such “incidents”, every single year.
Even were we to take your ludicrous, propagandistic numbers into account, it would still be the Palestinians who kill more of their own children, by a 5-1 yearly margin.
No wonder the kids are desperate to run head first into Israeli bullets. Their alternative is to be raped, murdered and buried in the back yard by their own relatives!
23,600 to 29,900 children required medical treatment for their beating injuries in the first two years of the [first] intifida, with nearly one third sustaining broken bones
What “Save the Children” did not say, was how many of these beatings were the result of “normal” parenting on the part of the Palestinians. Palestinians beat their kids. Mercilessly, relentlessly, and sometimes for no reason. Just talk to a village Palestinian about their childhood. Beatings by both parents, relatives and complete strangers are both “normal” and accepted.
I suppose that’s for the lucky ones, who aren’t raped, murdered and buried in the back yard!
6,500 to 8,000 children were wounded by gunfire during the first two years of the Intifada
What the report did not say was who fired the weapons that resulted in children being wounded. Again, you don’t know Palestinian society. Ask any Palestinian who grew up in the 1st or 2nd Intifada. They will tell you it is a common passtime for kids to pick up unspent bullets on the ground, put them between two rocks, and hit the bullet from behind until it detonates, shooting the slug randomly.
Nor are Palestinian children exempt from stupidity on the part of Palestinian adults. These actions include
1) firing rifles off into the air randomly every time they want to act like “real men”. Those bullets have to come down somewhere.
2) Improperly manufacturing bombs and rockets to be fired at Israel, with the result being that the bombs explode prematurely and the rockets fall short of murdering the Jewish child in Sderot and instead murder the Palestinian child in Beit Lahia.
3) Shooting at Israeli military forces in the presence of children, and often using children as human shields to avoid IDF retaliation.
Are you now going to argue that *30,000* Palestinian kids were beaten by the Israelis by accident, many of them so savagely that a third of them suffered broken bones?
No, I’m going to state you have no understanding of Palestinian society. Breaking the bones of a child during a parental beating is not uncommon, especially in the more felahe villages.
What kind of a mind does it take to rationalize the deliberate shooting and savage beating of children? I cannot see anyone with any trace of morality, ethics or human conscience supporting horrific crimes against children like this. Within our culture, those who harm children are considered the lowest of the low.
I agree wholeheartedly! Let’s put a stop to Palestinian abuse, beating and murder of children in the West Bank and Gaza! Start the petition, and I’ll sign. I’m sure uncle Jihad in Jabaliya will read this petition, before he beheads you.
Hamas is the legitimately elected representative of the Palestinian people, and there are many who would regard the PNA under Abbas as exactly the kind of Quisling government I mentioned before.
Strange. Hamas did win the parliamentary elections, and you consider that vote legitimate. Abbas won in the presidential elections, and you do not consider that vote legitimate. I am starting to suspect you have a special place in your heart for Islamist terrorist organizations responsible for the murder of hundreds of Israeli civilians, including entire busloads of Jewish children. You were all for protecting children just a second ago… maybe it’s because these children are Jewish, that you support their murderers? Just a thought.
In any case, the PNA President, not the legislature, is responsible for declaring a state of war with Israel. The PNA has condemned terrorist acts against Israelis, thus robbing these murderers of legitimacy.
The appointment of a Quisling government does not rob an occupied people of the right to resist that occupation.
The PNA was not appointed, all of it, was elected by a majority of the Palestinian people in free and fair elections. Again, you believe elections are only fair and free if Islamofascists who wish to murder Jews are elected. Interesting.
So long as they are not targeting civilians, using disproportionate force or violating the rules of war, any armed resistance by Palestinians is legtimate.
This is simply not the case. Palestinians outside of official security forces have no legitimate right to engage in violence or combat, whether against their own people,
or anyone else.
violating the rules of war
Not declaring yourself to be a combatant in an armed conflict is against the rules of war. Firing bullets, rockets and mortars at civilian population centers is against the rules of war. Murdering civilians with homicide bombers is against the rules of war. Hiding amongst a civilian population with the intent of evading an opposing military force is against the rules of war. Using children to perpetrate terrorist violence is against the rules of war. And that’s just the beginning…
There has been no specific UN resolution or any other action under international law prohibitting the Palestinians from resisting the occupation.
Just because Evil has broad-based support does not make it less Evil. The Palestinians, at least the ones who matter, are engaged in a war of extermination against the Jews. That they are supported by Arab bretheren – all of which are one party dictatorships – who launched and financed a half dozen wars of extermination against the Jewish state is not surprising.
The world has done little to promote Palestinian sovereignty other than drafting a handful or unenforceable UN resolutions. The US by contrast has given billions in aid and free weaponry to Israel.
Tell that to the US, EU, UN, UNRWA, Arab League… Tens of billions have been spent on the Palestinians from all corners, especially the US and EU, with little to show for it. Indeed, Israel itself donated weapons to the PA security forces in the 1990s! It is not the fault of donors that this money and resources are continually siphoned to private Palestinian pockets and terrorism and war against Jews in Israel.
Both Fatah and Hamas have openly stated they are willing to recognize the existence of a Jewish state on the territory that was stolen from the Palestinians prior to 1967 either as is or in exchange for recognition of a fully indepedent Palestinian state.
We’ll let Hamas speak for itself:
After talks with former U.S. President Jimmy Carter, Hamas’ exiled leader Khalid Meshaal said Monday the militant group has no plans to recognize Israel.
“We agree on the [Palestinian] state with the borders of June 4, 1967, Jerusalem as its capital, fully sovereign without settlements, the right of return, but without the recognition of Israel,” Meshaal said at a news conference in Damascus, Syria.
So much for that theory, but thanks for trying. You’re an appologist for Islamofascist terrorists. Sleep well.
Israel has one of the most powerful armies in the world, nuclear weapons, and the mindless, unquestioned support of the US and its military.
Thanks for the compliments. The Jews worked hard to ensure that “Never Again” meant “Never Again”, whether by Hitler’s SS or Arab armies.
The idea that some kids with rocks resisiting the theft of their land consitutes a threat to Israel’s self-determnination is mental derangement of the “I think I’m Napoleon” variety.
Which is why i think it’s silly that you continue to claim this. Decent people don’t throw rocks, and they don’t send their children to throw rocks – that goes for anyone, Jew, Muslim, Christian, Druze, etc. The Palestinians have elected their government. Any violence initated outside the authority of that government is illegitimate, whether committed by hardened Palestinian terrorists or 16 year old kids who have been brainwashed to worship those terrorists.
International law does not recognize the right to territorial acquisition through war.
Huh! You don’t say. Tell that to the Arab armies that invaded the nascent Jewish State in 1948. I suppose if the Arabs had prevailed, they would have shortly returned the land to the Jews, right?
Furthermore, Jewish armies, acting in wars of self-defense, annexed previously Arab land in the 1948 War of Independence and other combat actions which followed on Israel’s periphery. These annexations were recognized as legitimate by the international community. Thus, your demand that Israel withdraw to 1967 borders. Why stop there? Demand a return to 1948 borders!
The fact is, annexation of territory is an accepted part of international law, when such annexation is recognized by the international community.
The fact that Israel is determined to emulate the Nazis in so many ways doesn’t make their actions legal.
That’s an interesting statement, coming from an individual who acts as an appologist for Hamas, an organization sworn to exterminating the Jewish State as its foundational purpose and charter. Very interesting.
Murdering Palestinian kids using and military force
Already debunked. Using children in combat is a war crime. Killing or detaining children being used by the opposing force to commit war crimes is not a war crime; it is a legitimate act of self-defense.
to annex territory are also a war crimes
Already debunked. Annexing territory is legitimate, as proven by Israel annexing all the land it now posesses, up to 1967. This land, including West Jerusalem, is considered to be completely and legitimately under Israeli sovereignty, though it was conquered in defensive wars.
every war crime the Israelis suffered has been the result of their attempts to steal Palestinian land
So you admit the Jews of Israel have been under relentless attack, and have had war crimes committed against them, repeatedly. We are making progress.
The Jews were usually treated with dignity and respect in Muslim lands prior to the advent of Zionism and indeed dominated trade in commerce under the Ottomans.
Oh, how little ye’ knows…
Violence against Jews in Muslim Lands:
Jews were generally viewed with contempt by their Muslim neighbors; peaceful coexistence between the two groups involved the subordination and degradation of the Jews.
When Jews were perceived as having achieved too comfortable a position in Islamic society, anti-Semitism would surface, often with devastating results: On December 30, 1066, Joseph HaNagid, the Jewish vizier of Granada, Spain, was crucified by an Arab mob that proceeded to raze the Jewish quarter of the city and slaughter its 5,000 inhabitants. The riot was incited by Muslim preachers who had angrily objected to what they saw as inordinate Jewish political power.
Similarly, in 1465, Arab mobs in Fez slaughtered thousands of Jews, leaving only 11 alive, after a Jewish deputy vizier treated a Muslim woman in “an offensive manner.” The killings touched off a wave of similar massacres throughout Morocco.
Other mass murders of Jews in Arab lands occurred in Morocco in the 8th century, where whole communities were wiped out by Muslim ruler Idris I; North Africa in the 12th century, where the Almohads either forcibly converted or decimated several communities; Libya in 1785, where Ali Burzi Pasha murdered hundreds of Jews; Algiers, where Jews were massacred in 1805, 1815 and 1830 and Marrakesh, Morocco, where more than 300 hundred Jews were murdered between 1864 and 1880.
Decrees ordering the destruction of synagogues were enacted in Egypt and Syria (1014, 1293-4, 1301-2), Iraq (854-859, 1344) and Yemen (1676). Despite the Koran’s prohibition, Jews were forced to convert to Islam or face death in Yemen (1165 and 1678), Morocco (1275, 1465 and 1790-92) and Baghdad (1333 and 1344).
As distinguished Orientalist G.E. von Grunebaum has written:
It would not be difficult to put together the names of a very sizeable number of Jewish subjects or citizens of the Islamic area who have attained to high rank, to power, to great financial
influence, to significant and recognized intellectual attainment; and the same could be done for Christians. But it would again not be difficult to compile a lengthy list of persecutions, arbitrary confiscations, attempted forced conversions, or pogroms.
The situation of Jews in Arab lands reached a low point in the 19th century. Jews in most of North Africa (including Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt, Libya and Morocco) were forced to live in ghettos. In Morocco, which contained the largest Jewish community in the Islamic Diaspora, Jews were made to walk barefoot or wear shoes of straw when outside the ghetto. Even Muslim children participated in the degradation of Jews, by throwing stones at them or harassing them in other ways. The frequency of anti-Jewish violence increased, and many Jews were executed on charges of apostasy. Ritual murder accusations against the Jews became commonplace in the Ottoman Empire.
By the twentieth century, the status of the dhimmi in Muslim lands had not significantly improved. H.E.W. Young, British Vice Consul in Mosul, wrote in 1909:
The attitude of the Muslims toward the Christians and the Jews is that of a master towards slaves, whom he treats with a certain lordly tolerance so long as they keep their place. Any sign of pretension to equality is promptly repressed.
The danger for Jews became even greater as a showdown approached in the UN over partition in 1947. The Syrian delegate, Faris el-Khouri, warned: “Unless the Palestine problem is settled, we shall have difficulty in protecting and safeguarding the Jews in the Arab world.”
More than a thousand Jews were killed in anti-Jewish rioting during the 1940′s in Iraq, Libya, Egypt, Syria and Yemen. This helped trigger the mass exodus of Jews from Arab countries.
This would seem a long enough rebutal of your lies, distortions and outright drivel. You have shown yourself to be ignorant of the facts, uneducated in International Law, unfamiliar with either Palestinian culture or Jewish-Muslim history, and outright supportive of Islamofascism’s aim to exterminate Jews.
You’re a disgusting peace of work, and it has been my pleasure to tackle and overcome your particular brand of evil.
Posted by Firouz | August 3, 2008, 12:58 pm“You use Islamist and Palestinian propaganda to justify your viewpoint.”
Well assuming that is true, what propaganda do you accept ? Zionist and right wing ?
“committing war crimes”
Defending ones country and family is a war crime ? Ever thought that maybe it’s your war crimes that push Palestinians to react as such ? This is how one of your prime ministers explained your terrorism towards British troops to them :
“Remember 1940. Then it seemed quite possible that your island country would be conquered and subjugated by Hitler hordes . . . what would you have done? Would you have gone underground?”
link :
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article4360655.ece?print=yes&randnum;=1216481091566
” using children as human shields “
like these IDF soldiers ? :
http://lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com/news/2006/08/hiding_behind_c.html
“No wonder the kids are desperate to run head first into Israeli bullets. Their alternative is to be raped, murdered and buried in the back yard by their own relatives!”
Really … rotfl. do they drink jewish blood as well ?
“Beatings by both parents, relatives and complete strangers are both “normal” and accepted.”
So why don’t catholic and Jewish children do the same after being sodomized or do they like it ?
“Shooting at Israeli military forces in the presence of children”
It isn’t as if the IDF would fight outside of tanks or civilian areas, they basically jump from house to house; ofcourse there are going to be children and women.
“No, I’m going to state you have no understanding of Palestinian society. Breaking the bones of a child during a parental beating is not uncommon, especially in the more felahe villages.”
Yes those evil pali’s unlike you western piece of shit who rapes kills and cage your children ..
“Abbas won in the presidential elections, and you do not consider that vote legitimate.”
Thats because your government put him in power with its fatah allies ( not all of fatah only those like dahlan ) :
“With Israeli forces arresting and restricting the movement of other candidates, Hamas’s boycott of the election, and his campaign being given 94% of Palestine TV electoral campaign coverage, Abbas’ election was virtually ensured,[16] and on January 9 Abbas was elected with 62% of the vote as the new president of the Palestinian Authority. (See Palestinian presidential election, 2005 for election statistics.)”
“Any violence initated outside the authority of that government is illegitimate, whether committed by hardened Palestinian terrorists or 16 year old kids who have been brainwashed to worship those terrorists.”
That government is a temporary one and your occupation is illegitimate thus resisting it is legitimate.
“Tell that to the Arab armies that invaded the nascent Jewish State in 1948. I suppose if the Arabs had prevailed, they would have shortly returned the land to the Jews, right?”
What Jewish state ? Arab land handed over to european jews as compensation for German acts of genocide by western governments, why would the arabs give such a decision any legitimacy or care about it you’re in palestine its our and we’ll take it back when we can …….. and we will take all of it back.
“The Jews worked hard to ensure that “Never Again” meant “Never Again”, whether by Hitler’s SS or Arab armies.”
Well the clock of time hasn’t ended and never hasn’t arrived yet so hold your horses.
“The fact is, annexation of territory is an accepted part of international law, when such annexation is recognized by the international community.”
So we just have to reannex palestine back together and get the international community to accept and we’ll be over then ?
“an organization sworn to exterminating the Jewish State as its foundational purpose and charter. “
Yes sworn to destroy a facist racist colonialist zionist state.
“it is a legitimate act of self-defense.”
Self-defense is what the Palestinians are doing you Israeli’s are the aggressors you can’t be self-defending yourselves and aggressing at the same time.
“Islamofascism’s aim to exterminate Jews”
No not jews, only zionist Israelites who refuse to return the land they stole and compensate the Palestinians and Arabs for all the pain and suffering they have caused them.
“Violence against Jews in Muslim Lands:”
Well given what you’ve been doing in palestine and all your conniving against muslims and arabs in the western world don’t you think our fears were justified ? In retrospect we obviously didn’t do enough !
Posted by Anonymous | August 3, 2008, 7:04 pmFirouz pretty much covered it. Anon, your pathetic attempt at a counter is just desperate.
Posted by Mitch | August 3, 2008, 8:03 pm1. Why are children allowed to go to demonstrations knowing they can turn violent? Where are the parents?
2. In Israel at least when such a terrible thing happens, there is an investigation and the soldier is brought to court and if guilty to jail. In your society if a Terrorist kill a Jew he is turned into a hero and his act is celebrated in the streets. Change this and maybe one day peace will be possible.
Posted by Shimshon | August 4, 2008, 2:11 amSorry, Firouz, you lost me…. which do you feel best represents Israel’s only chance of survival – apartheid or ethnic cleansing?
It would help us better understand the nature of your psychosis.
Posted by NOX | August 4, 2008, 5:28 amNox, I’m not surprised you fell behind the rest of the class, as usual. Did you take the medication as the Doctor ordered? Two of the blue pills and one of the white. That’s a good boy.
Nox, you support apartheid Palestine – a homogeneous homeland for the Palestinians, where the few minorities that remain are segregated in ethnic ghetoes and bantustans, pay dhimmi taxes and are denied basic rights – such as addressing a court to address grievances – the way they were prior to 1948.
Nox, you support ethnic cleansing of Jews from Judea and Samaria, where they have resided for 3,000 years, continuously. The Jews of Hebron, for example, have already been cleansed, much to your delight.
No, I said two blue ones and one white one, not two white ones and one blue one. Just lie down if your head is spinning.
Posted by Firouz | August 4, 2008, 7:54 amI think you better save the blue pills for whichever poor fucker has got to get hard lying next to your sorry racist carcass….
Good luck with supporting Israel, sweetness.
Palestinians don’t need ethnic cleansing: we have birth rates and time… birth rates and time…. birth rates and time….. birth rates and time…
(That’s what happens when you park your colonial outpost in another country’s backyard… there tends to be more locals. Even FW de Klerk realised that.)
Posted by Lowfields | August 4, 2008, 8:52 amlet me get this straight…
1) You claim others are racist
2) You try to threaten others with a “demographic time bomb” based on the high fertility rates of your race
3) You apparently think the only thing a woman is good for is having your children
You’re a racist, sexist anti-Semite, and if you play your cards right, you’ll be married to a woman who beats you mercilessly for having such a small, limp… well, you get the idea.
You’re just hilarious to talk to, Lo. You have such a lack of understanding of how a democracy works. You think that if the Palestinians were annexed and given one vote they would all vote one way – to wipe the Jews out the next day.
The Palestinians can’t even decide between Hamas or Fatah! They are one of the most fractured people in the world. The Palestinians are just 4 million people, and they have 20 different terror groups.
Nevermind, you say, they will all unite, for one time in history, and vote together to wipe out the Jews. Really? And what will be the day after they wipe the Jews out? Another Palestinian civil war for the spoils? You’re insane. No thinking Palestinian is going to do this, when the benefits of living in Israel and cooperating with Jews will vastly outweigh the alternatives.
Think of the million Arab Israelis now. If they all decided to pick up knives and start murdering Jews, they would be impossible to stop. They don’t do this. They have bills to pay and weddings to attend, movies to enjoy and girlfriends to fuck. They couldn’t care less about your nonsense for destroying Jews. They want to live as human beings and enjoy life.
I believe in One State because I believe in those things which you claim to believe, while secretly wishing to genocide my people.
Thoughts, like actions, Lo, have consequences. They are not harmless; they change individuals, and they change the world. If you want your children to fight and die, just because G-d endowed you with a small Iraqi Kabob and you want to prove that size doesn’t matter, that can all be arranged.
What a waste of life you are.
A waste of life.
Posted by Firouz | August 4, 2008, 10:47 am"Israel snipers do shoot kids on purpose"
"This statement is not supported by facts, and is thus not legitimate. You use Islamist and Palestinian propaganda to justify your viewpoint. If you can't demonstrate a minimal of credibility in exposing your views, they are not worth commentary. I'm sure Hitler had his rationalizations, as do you, but that did not make his quest to kill millions legitimate, and neither is yours."
What a remarkably disturbed, paranoid and dishonest individual you are. Human rights organizations with more credibility than you have documented the policy of deliberate attacks against civilians, including kids, by Israel. Among these are B'Tselem, an Israeli human rights organization. There is video evidence of unprovoked attacks against civilians by Israeli settlers and soldiers. I provided you with an interview by an Israeli journalist with an Israeli sniper published in an Israeli newspaper documenting the policy of shooting kids over the age of 12, and you dare to claim this is "Palestinian propaganda." You really need to see someone about your total disconnection from reality.
You may try hard drugs, but you cannot make the reality of Israel's atrocities go away by accusing critics of Israel of wanting to exterminate the Jews or supporting terrorism or whatever other outrageous, despicable lie you wish to plant in someone's mouth. The fact that so many Zionists like you need to resort to lies of this maginitude dragged straght out of your ass to counter people who dare to speak the truth is all anyone needs to know just how meaningless the truth is to the Zionist agenda. The fact is, there is nothing I have said, or could say, about Israel that is not backed up by *Israeli* historians, *Israeli* journalists, *Israeli* soldiers, and *Israeli* human rights organizations, as well as by outside observers, the UN and by other human rights organizations. To dismiss all of that with a wave of your hand, scream "propaganda" and "anti-semitism!" and "you just want to kill the Jews!" speaks volumes about just what deluded, dangerously disturbed and morally bankrupt individuals you and many of your fellow Zionists really are. There is simply no lie, no distortion, no blatant bending of the truth so low that you dare not engage in it, right in full public view, no less. We should expect no less from baby-killers and ethnic cleansers.
"What is reprehensible is that Palestinians would employ their children in committing war crimes."
What is reprehensible is that any human being could declare a kid walking to school as a war criminal and use that to justify his murder.
"Palestinian children 'dream
of martyrdom':
Arab psychologist says more than half want to strap on bombs
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=22856">Palestinian TV urging
children to kill Dead 12-year-old in paradise beckons kids to martyr themselves"
WingnutDaily anti-Muslim racist bullshit snipped.
"By the way, I would like to applaud you for caring so deeply about Palestinian children. Perhaps you will join me, then, in condemning the alarming gendercide of women, particularly young girls, in the West Bank and Gaza. We're at an average of 32 official "honor killings" per year, as of 2007, although I've seen unofficial estimates running into 90 such "incidents", every single year."
Violence against women, including so-called "honor killings," is indeed appalling and deserves condemnation. But you seem to think Palestinians have a monopoly on domestic violence. There is an epidemic of violence, including rape and murder, in Western countries against women. If the statistics you posted are accurate, than the rate of killings of women in Palestine is dwarfed by that of the US, which has the highest murder rate of any Western nation by far. Whether such killngs are done for "honor" or not, the victims are just as dead.
"Even were we to take your ludicrous, propagandistic numbers into account, it would still be the Palestinians who kill more of their own children, by a 5-1 yearly margin."
Exactly which bodily orifice did you pull this one out of, anyway?
"No wonder the kids are desperate to run head first into Israeli bullets. Their alternative is to be raped, murdered and buried in the back yard by their own relatives!"
You really are a vile, racist piece of shit. There is no way a child can "run into a bullet," unless he has the speed of superman. Those bullets didn't just magically appear in the air around the heads of Palestinian children, they were willfully, deliberately fired by Israeli soldiers at those children in violation of international law and the standards of common decency.
23,600 to 29,900 children required medical treatment for their beating injuries in the first two years of the [first] intifida, with nearly one third sustaining broken bones
"What "Save the Children" did not say, was how many of these beatings were the result of "normal" parenting on the part of the Palestinians. Palestinians beat their kids. Mercilessly, relentlessly, and sometimes for no reason. Just talk to a village Palestinian about their childhood. Beatings by both parents, relatives and complete strangers are both "normal" and accepted."
That was because these beatings were not the result of "normal parenting" as you put it, but the actions of Israeli soldiers, settlers and police. Spouting racist lies about the Palestinians does not alter this reality.
"I suppose that's for the lucky ones, who aren't raped, murdered and buried in the back yard!"
Many of them were "lucky" enough to be murdered on video by Israeli soldiers.
6,500 to 8,000 children were wounded by gunfire during the first two years of the Intifada
"What the report did not say was who fired the weapons that resulted in children being wounded. Again, you don't know Palestinian society. Ask any Palestinian who grew up in the 1st or 2nd Intifada. They will tell you it is a common passtime for kids to pick up unspent bullets on the ground, put them between two rocks, and hit the bullet from behind until it detonates, shooting the slug randomly."
You know, in debates with Zionists, I have found them to be some of the most shameless, despicable liars I have ever encountered in my life, but you really take the fucking prize. The report does in fact document that these kids were shot by Israelis, most of them in the head and neck, and your argument that all these kids were shot in the head or neck by banging unspent bullets on rocks is really fucking deranged even by your standards.
"Although this form of child exploitation (sending children to be killed) is described as a phenomenon by Israeli officials, the report states, no case of a child being killed under these conditions has ever been documented. Researchers, however, witnessed the indiscriminate beating, tear gassing and shooting of children at home or just outside their houses, playing in the street, at school, or on their way to the store for groceries. Children were also beaten, tear gassed, and shot for flashing v-for-victory signs. Parents interviewed consistently expressed fear and feelings of helplessness in protecting their children from the army. The four-volume report added that most of the children killed by gunfire had been shot in the head or the neck. Twelve per cent had been shot from behind.
For argument's sake, however, let us suppose that the primitive Palestinians send their children to be killed in a clever propaganda ploy. Why does modern, democratic Israel kill the children?"
http://wee
kly.ahram.org.eg/2001/535/op1.htm
"3) Shooting at Israeli military forces in the presence of children, and often using children as human shields to avoid IDF retaliation."
There is no evidence of Palestinians using kids as human shields—none—but a large body of evidence, including videos, that show Israeli soldiers using kids as human shields, so much so that the Israeli Supreme Court has ordered the IDF to stop the practice, though B'Tselem and other human rights organizations have documented that the practice continues.
"A recent HRW report notes how “Human Rights Watch and Israeli and Palestinian organizations documented numerous cases of Israeli forces using Palestinian civilians as human shields.” Similarly, Amnesty International has reported how Israeli occupation forces in the West Bank “have often used Palestinians effectively as human shields, endangering their lives in violation of international humanitarian law."
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/05/17/1255/print/
Are you now going to argue that *30,000* Palestinian kids were beaten by the Israelis by accident, many of them so savagely that a third of them suffered broken bones?
"No, I'm going to state you have no understanding of Palestinian society. Breaking the bones of a child during a parental beating is not uncommon, especially in the more felahe villages."
You have presented no evidence that the numbers I cited were the results of beating by Palestinian parents. You have only demonstrated what a lying scumbag you are, as if any more evidence were needed.
"What kind of a mind does it take to rationalize the deliberate shooting and savage beating of children? I cannot see anyone with any trace of morality, ethics or human conscience supporting horrific crimes against children like this. Within our culture, those who harm children are considered the lowest of the low."
I agree wholeheartedly! Let's put a stop to Palestinian abuse, beating and murder of children in the West Bank and Gaza! Start the petition, and I'll sign. I'm sure uncle Jihad in Jabaliya will read this petition, before he beheads you.
So you rationalize Israeli atrocites against children by blaming them on the Palestinians. Thanks for confirming what an unprincipled barbarian you are.
"In any case, the PNA President, not the legislature, is responsible for declaring a state of war with Israel. The PNA has condemned terrorist acts against Israelis, thus robbing these murderers of legitimacy."
Terrorist acts have no legitimacy in either case, but the Palestinian people have a right to resist Israeli aggression that goes beyond whatever their Quisling government decides is right or wrong.
The appointment of a Quisling government does not rob an occupied people of the right to resist that occupation.
There has been no specific UN resolution or any other action under international law prohibitting the Palestinians from resisting the occupation.
"Just because Evil has broad-based support does not make it less Evil. The Palestinians, at least the ones who matter, are engaged in a war of extermination against the Jews. That they are supported by Arab bretheren – all of which are one party dictatorships – who launched and financed a half dozen wars of extermination against the Jewish state is not surprising."
What a load of bullshit. You seriously believe a bunch of kids with rocks are going to "exterminate" the Jewish people? It is Israel that is engaged in a war of extermination against the Palestinians, as evidenced by some of the chief rabbis of Israel frequently calling for the extermination of the Palestinian people and assuring Israeli soldiers that there is no distinction between combatants and non-combatants under Jewish religious law when it comes to waging war against Israel's self-created enemies. Please give me some examples of any major Arab leader calling for the outright extermination of the Jewsish people, and no, the elimination of Israel as a racist, apartheid Jewish state does not qualify as nor does it require "extermination" any more that the defeat of the Nazi government did.
We'll let Hamas speak for itself:
After talks with former U.S. President Jimmy Carter, Hamas' exiled leader Khalid Meshaal said Monday the militant group has no plans to recognize Israel.
"We agree on the [Palestinian] state with the borders of June 4, 1967, Jerusalem as its capital, fully sovereign without settlements, the right of return, but without the recognition of Israel," Meshaal said at a news conference in Damascus, Syria.
So much for that theory, but thanks for trying. You're an appologist for Islamofascist terrorists. Sleep well."
What he said, taken in context, is this:
"[W]e in Hamas, like most of the Palestinian factions, have accepted the idea of a state with the borders of June 4, 1967. However, we have said that we will not recognise Israel. Why? Because the Palestinian people are convinced that this land on which Israel exists is their own land. So, while they accept a state with the borders of 1967, they do not want to give legitimacy to those who occupied their lands 60 or 70 years ago. So, the formula is simply this: if through politics we have accepted a state with the borders of 1967, why should we be forced to renounce our beliefs and feelings and recognise Israel?"
This amounts to a defacto recognition of the existence of a Jewish state, which clearly defines the borders of what Hamas considers an acceptable Palestinian state, but does so without recognizing the legitimacy of the theft of their land, which is an absurd requirement. It is as unreasonable to ask the Palestinian people to recognize the right of Israel to ethnically cleanse them and steal their land as it would be to ask Jews the recognize the right of the Nazis to exterminate them. Hamas has also clearly defined what to it are acceptable borders for a Palestinian state, which do not include the current state of Israel. Israel has never defined its borders as it has every intention of expanding them.
"Why should the Arabs make peace? If I was an Arab leader, I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. Sure, God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them? Our God is not theirs, We come from Israel, it's true, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we came here and stole their country. Why should they accept that?" David Ben-Gurion, quoted in "The Jewish Paradox" by Nathan Goldman, former president of the World Jewish Congress.
Israel has one of the most powerful armies in the world, nuclear weapons, and the mindless, unquestioned support of the US and its military.
"Thanks for the compliments. The Jews worked hard to ensure that "Never Again" meant "Never Again", whether by Hitler's SS or Arab armies."
My tax dollars worked pretty hard for that, too. Apparently, it doesn't mean "Never Again" for the Palestinians, the Lebanese or the people of Iran, who have been threatened with a nuclear holocaust by Israel's mad-dog supporters in the US.
"Which is why i think it's silly that you continue to claim this. Decent people don't throw rocks, and they don't send their children to throw rocks – that goes for anyone, Jew, Muslim, Christian, Druze, etc. The Palestinians have elected their government. Any violence initated outside the authority of that government is illegitimate, whether committed by hardened Palestinian terrorists or 16 year old kids who have been brainwashed to worship those terrorists."
/>You keep repeating this lie as though rocks being thrown by kids against an illegal occupying army is an act of illegitimate violence but kids being shot by the soldiers of that illegal occupying army is legal. Also, most kids are not shot in the process of throwing rocks, but on their way to school, or when they are in or around their homes.
Let's face it, your sole criteria of determining whether something is right or wrong is based entirely on whether the act is done by a Jew or a Palestinian. So in you sick, racist supremacist mind, a Palestinian kid throwing a rock is a war criminal, but an Israeli soldier shooting that kid is not, even when he is enforcing an illegal occupation. Fortunately, few people outside the rancid Zionist circles you run in support such a disturbed and distorted view.
International law does not recognize the right to territorial acquisition through war.
"Huh! You don't say. Tell that to the Arab armies that invaded the nascent Jewish State in 1948. I suppose if the Arabs had prevailed, they would have shortly returned the land to the Jews, right?"
Why would they have returned their own land to the people that had come to steal it from them?
"Furthermore, Jewish armies, acting in wars of self-defense, annexed previously Arab land in the 1948 War of Independence and other combat actions which followed on Israel's periphery. These annexations were recognized as legitimate by the international community. Thus, your demand that Israel withdraw to 1967 borders. Why stop there? Demand a return to 1948 borders!"
The demand that Israel withdraw to the 1967 borders is contained in UN Resolution 242, which emphasizes "the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war." The only one of Israel's wars you can possibly argue was defensive was the 1973 war. The 1948 was a response to israel's theft of the land and the process of murder and ethnic cleansing that had already begun before Israel has even declared its so-called "independence."
"The fact is, annexation of territory is an accepted part of international law, when such annexation is recognized by the international community."
There is no country on Earth, not even the US, that recognizes Israel's claim to the West Bank. Just because the world failed to confront the Jewish theft of land in 1948 as it should have does not mean that Israel now has a blank check to steal land any time and in any way it chooses. Are you really this deluded, or do you imagine that if a criminal gets away with a crime once, he is then exempt from prosecution forever?
The fact that Israel is determined to emulate the Nazis in so many ways doesn't make their actions legal.
"That's an interesting statement, coming from an individual who acts as an appologist for Hamas, an organization sworn to exterminating the Jewish State as its foundational purpose and charter. Very interesting."
Except I haven't apologized for Hamas, though I realize lies are all you have to offer so knock yourself out. You, on the other hand, have apologized for Israel's policy of shooting children by ridiculously blaming it on kids playing with unspent rounds and every other absurdity you could pull out your ass rather than blaming it on the soldiers who fired the bullets and the leaders who ordered them to do so. Yes, you are a Nazi.
"Already debunked. Using children in combat is a war crime. Killing or detaining children being used by the opposing force to commit war crimes is not a war crime; it is a legitimate act of self-defense."
Killing kids on the way to school is not a legitimate act of self-defense. All acts carried out in the process of enforcing an illegal occupation are themselves illegal. If you think it is morally permissible to shoot children on the way to school, then you are truly a walking, talking piece of shit unworthy to grace the bottom of my shoe.
"Already debunked. Annexing territory is legitimate, as proven by Israel annexing all the land it now posesses, up to 1967. This land, including West Jerusalem, is considered to be completely and legitimately under Israeli sovereignty, though it was conquered in defensive wars."
Just because Israel got away with the theft of land once does not make the theft of land legitimate. International law is clear on the concept that there is no right to territorial acquisition through war. None. You cannot assume a right to someone else's land into existence through sophistry or wishful thinking. Such a right would have to be spelled out and agreed to by the international community, particularly where it involves a territory such as Palestine where there is an active, armed conflict over its ownership. There is no such recognition of Israel's claims to the West Bank. "It's ours because we say so and you didn't stop us the last time we ethnically cleansed these people and stole their land" is not the basis of international law in anything but your own warped and perverted worldview.
"So you admit the Jews of Israel have been under relentless attack, and have had war crimes committed against them, repeatedly. We are making progress."
I never denied that the Israelis have suffered war crimes, though Israel has not been under "relentless" attack. Acts of terrorism directed against civilians, regardless of the legitimacy of the cause they are carried out in, are still war crimes. It is you, and not me, that cannot acknowledge that the wilfull killing of civilians by one side constitutes a war crime, simply because that one side is Jewish. For Zionist scum like you, there is no act so vicious, so vile, so barbaric, so beyond the pale of human decency—not even the deliberate murder of children—that is not justifiable if it is carried out in Israel's name.
"This would seem a long enough rebutal of your lies, distortions and outright drivel. You have shown yourself to be ignorant of the facts, uneducated in International Law, unfamiliar with either Palestinian culture or Jewish-Muslim history, and outright supportive of Islamofascism's aim to exterminate Jews."
You have rebutted nothing. You have taken evidence backed by Israeli human rights organizations and dismissed it with a wave of your hand as "Islamic" propaganda. You have resorted to obscene lies and absurdities to rationalize the murder of children. You have displayed a "knowledge" of the Israel-Palestinian conflict that is informed by nothing but the most depraved, mendacious and cynical anti-Arab racism and rationalizations of barbarism and brutality. You have shown that there is no lie that is beneath your character to tell, including the lie that critics of Israeli's murder of children and oppression of the Palestinians are motivated by a desire to extreminate the Jewish people. But thanks for revealing just what low-life pieces of shit apologists for Israeli state terrorism really are. Your words reveal more about the realities of what the Palestinian people face than anything I can say.
"You're a disgusting peace of work, and it has been my pleasure to tackle and overcome your particular brand of evil."
Like so many other trained Zionist monkeys, you have done little here but smear shit on the wall and called it art.
Posted by Sean | August 4, 2008, 8:47 pmHuman rights organizations with more credibility than you have documented the policy of deliberate attacks against civilians, including kids, by Israel.
What a remarkably disturbed, paranoid and dishonest individual you are. Human rights organizations with more credibility than you have documented individual and isolated cases of abuse and attacks againt civilians, including kids, by Israelis – soldiers and civilians. In no way has any credible organization claimed that it is the policy of the Israeli government or the Israeli Defense Forces that such abuse and attacks are standard or acceptable practice. In the scope of hundreds of thousands of daily interactions between Israelis and Palestinians, such cases constitute a minuscule percentage.
Israeli civil societies has worked to lower this percentage further, as evidenced by rejection and refutation of such incidents by the highest levels of the Israeli government. The Israeli system works. Your attempt to extrapolate the actions of a few individuals to hundreds of thousands of Israelis involved in security operations on a daily basis, in the midst of a complicated military and socio-political context, can only be described as propagandist, having little to do with reality.
Let’s take an example…
I provided you with an interview by an Israeli journalist with an Israeli sniper published in an Israeli newspaper documenting the policy of shooting kids over the age of 12
Actually, you didn’t. You posted a link to an anti-Israel site which does not provide a link back to the Haaretz article, and only posts a short snippet from the interview. I could not find the original Haaretz article, but I did find it reprinted.
Really, this goes to the bottom of everything you have sited – a selective us of facts for propaganda purposes. I don’t blame you; it’s convenient and fits readily into a preconceived agenda.
Let’s suppose you are an honest person, with an honest desire for intellectual honesty. Your goal is not propaganda, but truth.
Read that article to me and tell me if it provides any missing context to the short snippet of the “interview” you were just referring to.
I want an honest response. You can skip the rhetoric. It’s just you and me now; almost no one will read this far down, and this post will be cycled off the front page in a day or two.
Posted by Firouz | August 4, 2008, 10:33 pmFirouz,
I think your paranoia and ignorance are preventing you from actaully engaging in 3rd grade comprehension.
I didn’t say Palestine would “vote to wipe out Jews” – your Holocaust fanatisies really need some medical intervention, love – I said that once every man in Palestine gets the same vote and citizenship to the same state, Israel will not exist as a Jewish state.
Because very soon there will be more non-Jews than Jews.
It’s THAT FUCKING SIMPLE.
Now, that won’t mean gas chambers and ovens. It will mean a constitution built on “Jews” first will be erased. It will mean Arabs can buy land anywhere they choose. It will mean Arab towns and villages get the same access to water, education, road networks, electricity… It will mean Arabs will form political parties to contest elections and form governments…
In 2020, or thereabouts, there will be as many Palestinian Arabs between the River Jordan and the Dead Sea as Jews. Therefore, IN A DEMOCRACY, the racist policies of Israel – preferential treatment of one race over another – will DISAPPEAR.
No more Zionism, F.
Get used to it: apartheid or democracy. Ethnic cleansing or the end of Zionism.
Posted by Lowfields | August 5, 2008, 12:26 amOops…. River Jordan and the Mediterranean Sea… still dreaming about my weekend floating on the salty stuff, clearly…
Posted by Lowfields | August 5, 2008, 12:28 amIt will mean Arabs [and Jews] can buy land anywhere they choose. It will mean Arab towns and villages get the same access to water, education, road networks, electricity… It will mean Arabs will form political parties to contest elections and form governments…
And I support all this. It’s not going to be an easy transition, but it is a real alternative. We can be solving old problems for the next 60 years, or creating new problems for 60 more years.
For Arab Israelis, all the things you’ve cited are in effect by law, if not in implementation, and it is only a matter of time before implementation catches up with the law. To categorize Israeli society or the Israeli government as monolithic disregards truth for the sake of ideological clarity.
I think it’s ridiculous that there are still some Arab Israeli villages without running water and sanitation. There is a reason why those choices were made, and not all of them were based on racism, although some were. I don’t see a need to punish people who are peaceful and law abiding.
I also think it’s ridiculous Arab Israelis aren’t forced to serve in the IDF like the Jews and Druze are. They are reaping the benefits of living in a stable, secure country, but have to contribute nothing to it, while Jews and Druze citizens give the military 2-3 years of their life.
With their knowledge of Arabic and Palestinian culture, as well as familial links, they would be much more effective at maintaining peace in the territories while political negotiations continue.
There is much to discuss, but once again, Will, Mohammad, Maytha, et. al. are not interested in actually developing the One State. They prefer to speak of it vaguely, as a weapon to scare liberal Jews with the “demographic bomb”.
I have made my priorities crystal clear. The preservation of Jewish life is the foundation for any real discussion, and from my perspective, supersedes every other issue in importance.
Some on this blog consider the preservation of Jewish life to be at odds with Palestinian human rights.
I don’t see how the ability to threaten Jewish life is a “Palestinian human rights issue”, but this is a choice for Palestinians to make.
As for your demographic comments… “experts” have been predicting the demographic time bomb to go off in Israel since before it was created. The situation was much worse in 1929, I assure you.
As I said, I am not concerned with this. It is a tool of argument, nothing more. Palestinian children do not scare me; Palestinian adults with bomb belts do. Not every Palestinian is as interested in a fair democratic society for both Arabs and Jews, as you say you are.
Posted by Firouz | August 5, 2008, 3:10 pm“Some on this blog consider the preservation of Jewish life to be at odds with Palestinian human rights.”
Well, looking at current policies of a government completely at the mercy of the settlers and hawks, that’s EXACTLY WHAT IT IS right now! Every policy that steals more land, pilfers more water, shoots more children, destroys another business, etc, continues to be sold on the basis of defending the “right of Israel to exist”.
You’ve been guilty of it here: “Palestinians want to wipe Jews off the map” simply because they want the right to be a citizen of a state – any state – with a vote and equal rights?
I’ve long been a one stater… where EVERY RACE has the same rights, as protected in a democratically approved constitution.
Now, how Jews preserve their identity and culture within that legal framework is their business, but it is not the job of a government to provide preferential treatment.
Look at America: Jews make up 5% of the population, but no one could deny they have cemented their culture and identity in the fabric of that country. The same with the Irish and Italians in America, the Circassians in Jordan, the Armenians in Syria, the Persians in the Gulf States, etc, etc……
The Arab world could learn a lot from the things Israel does right – but the only lesson we’re getting is brutality, theft and the suspension of international law for a narrow agenda actually works.
Posted by Lowfields | August 5, 2008, 11:39 pmIt is a mistake to view the existing situation through a prism of blaming the "settlers and hawks".This is a common theme – "If only moderates and liberals in Israel held the reigns, we would have peace…"They have, for decades. Olmert is a moderate. Israel was ruled by huge liberals up to the 2nd Intifada. Even Bibi was dovish in dealing with the Palestinians.You have an expectation that a liberal or moderate Israeli leader, in the face of 5000 rockets being fired indiscriminately out of Gaza, will apologize for the Nakba, release all Palestinians convicted of murder and terrorism, open Gaza's borders and send Hamas a fat check for all the pain and suffering.Sharon, the hawk, the bulldozer, removed settlers from Gaza, not a liberal.The Gazans are under a self-imposed siege that has reduced them to little better than stone-age living, yet still they do not surrender. Why would you expect Israelis, with a $200Bil economy growing at 5% a year, to surrender when faced with 5000 Qassams?The only thing those Qassams do is create more "settlers and hawks".I won't preach to you further, except to say that this is a flawed logic that needs reevaluation on your end. "Settlers and hawks" are not the root here.To restate an earlier point, "Some on this blog consider the preservation of Jewish life to be at odds with Palestinian human rights."If this is a pledge the Palestinians have made – that they must have the ability to threaten Jewish life – then there is nothing to discuss.My people are, for the most part, safe. I will not risk or sacrifice Jewish life for a semblance of "fairness" in a negotiating position.You believe that the demographic threat gives you leverage to exact concessions at the expense of preserving Jewish life. I reject your leverage.There will be no concessions on preserving Jewish life.Reconsider your posture so that Jewish life and Palestinian human rights are not mutually exclusive. This is the basis on which I view the situation. It is the ultimate equity.
Posted by Firouz | August 6, 2008, 5:16 am“There will be no concessions on preserving Jewish life.”
Sorry, there is no point in arguing any further with a facist.
Posted by Lowfields | August 6, 2008, 11:45 pmIf this is a pledge the Palestinians have made – that they must have the ability to threaten Jewish life – then there is nothing to discuss.
Your desire to maintain the option to murder Jews, indiscriminately, is not a basis for anything, except Israeli security operations.
You’re right, Lowfields, there is nothing further to discuss. A spade is a spade, and you, Lowfields, wish to murder Jews.
Just remember this now, and always, “There will be no concessions on preserving Jewish life.”
Posted by Firouz | August 7, 2008, 5:41 am“You, Lowfields, wish to murder Jews.”
Pathetic.
The inadequacy of your intellect is laid bare with hysterical bile like that.
Moreover, your advocacy for the racial supremecy of Jews, and the impunity with which Palestinian lives must be shed to uphold it, shows you have far more in common with the Nazis than I do.
Your divinely inspired bigotry doesn’t deserve a second more of my time.
Posted by Lowfields | August 7, 2008, 6:15 amMe: “There will be no concessions on preserving Jewish life.”
You: “Sorry, there is no point in arguing any further with a facist.”
That says it all right there.
The situation is clear for both of us. I will not compromise on securing Jewish life, and you will not compromise on retaining the option to end Jewish life.
Why do you feel the need to start defending yourself? It is such a weak path to take, and unnecessary. You’re doing this for yourself, for your children, for your people. Retaining the option to murder Jews is part of how you view yourself. Be proud of who you are.
You’re certainly not going to see me risk the lives of my people because someone who wants the option to kill my people called me a racist for wanting to protect them.
I have priorities in this world, and so do you. Don’t be so defensive. You are who you are.
Posted by Firouz | August 7, 2008, 6:28 amSo sick and tired of all the pansie-ass Palestinian men on this blog. You’re all so confused about your identity. You want to retain the option to kill Jews, and yet you are afraid of being seen as anti-semitic. How can anyone respect this? Stand your ground. Be men, not kharoufs.
Posted by Firouz | August 7, 2008, 6:30 amYou: “There will be no concessions on preserving Jewish life.”
You are possibly the most inanely stupid person I have ever wasted keyboard time with.
You can’t even see the above line is fascist, racist, supremecist, because you’re blinded by your own bigotry. You clearly believe that Jewish is more important than Palestinian, Arab or African life.
That. Means. You’re. A. Fascist.
And not a very smart one at that….
Posted by Lowfields | August 7, 2008, 7:33 amWhile I do not advocate the targeting of civilians, especially children, under any circumstances, we must remember two things:
1) anyone who chooses to engage in violence (throwing rocks included) exposes themselves to violence
and
2) the individual IDF soldiers are not the same part of the political machine that supports settlement expansion. They are under obligation to serve and do not get to choose where they serve. They are little more than children themselves and they must make quick life-or-death decisions based on very little information.
I just wrote a post about this same subject, which I discuss in more detail on my blog: http://hrhlolita.blogspot.com/2008/08/thoughts-about-stone-throwing.html
Posted by HRH | August 7, 2008, 8:47 amIt’s a very simple concept, Lo’. I’m surprised, having explained it to you three times now, that it has still not sunk in.
Me: “There will be no concessions on preserving Jewish life.”
You: “Sorry, there is no point in arguing any further with a facist.”
Me:”The situation is clear for both of us. I will not compromise on securing Jewish life, and you will not compromise on retaining the option to end Jewish life.”
You: “You can’t even see the above line is fascist, racist, supremecist, because you’re blinded by your own bigotry. You clearly believe that Jewish is more important than Palestinian, Arab or African life.”
Shall we repeat this game? I’ll remind you that there will never be a compromise that endangers Jewish life. You will respond how unfair it is that I won’t let you kill Jews, and how I am a Nazi for not allowing you to kill my people.
This game will continue, until you do what I suggested days ago: “Reconsider your posture so that Jewish life and Palestinian human rights are not mutually exclusive. This is the basis on which I view the situation.”
So long as you wish to endanger Jewish life, your rights mean nothing to me. It is not merely a matter of my personal preference. It is a matter of Halacha. If you have an issue with it, take it up with G-d.
You can call me whatever name you wish. The Jews are not leaving. You can start another intifada. The Jews are not leaving. You can beat your wife until she is blue. The Jews are not leaving.
Until your people accept that retaining the option to murder Jews is unacceptable, your people will remain behind the Security Barrier, living with checkpoints, rubber bullets and the occasional airstrike.
There is no Jewish law on Palestinian demographics. The only law of relevance deals with preserving life, all life, starting with Jewish life.
That. Means. You’re. A. Fascist.
When you go to a hospital, do you visit every single patient? No, that’s ridiculous! You visit your family member who is sick first. Does that make you fascist? Does that mean you don’t care about others? Family comes first. I never thought I would have to explain that to a Palestinian. You are a Palestinian, aren’t you, Lo’?
There will be no compromises on the safety of my family.
It’s your life wasting away. Sad, I know, but your choices have consequences. The Jews are not leaving. That’s all there’s to it.
Posted by Firouz | August 7, 2008, 10:32 pmPeople who cannot differentiate between “Israeli” and “Jew” need to have their head examined. Simply defaulting on “you must be anti-semitic” is a childs argument.
Posted by Anonymous | August 8, 2008, 1:02 pmSimply defaulting on “you must be anti-semitic” is a childs argument.
Oh, and this entire time I’ve been confused. Now I understand. When Hamas fires rockets at Sderot, they are aiming for the Druze, or perhaps the Bedouin citizens of Israel, not the Jews.
When al Aqsa Martyrs sends a terrorist to murder Jews at a religious school, they really meant to kill students at the Muslim school next door. Damn that Mapquest!
When a homicide bomber is dispatched to murder Israelis, he goes to the closest Israeli Arab village to detonate his vest.
You’re ridiculous.
Israel is a Jewish state, with an 80% Jewish population. This war started with Palestinians massacring Jews in Hebron, Jerusalem, Jaffa, Haifa… The Arab slogans of 1948 were not “Drive the Israelis into the sea!”
Palestinians are fighting Jews, not Druze, not Bedouin, not Israeli Arabs, not Christians, not Baha’i, not the thousands of foreign laborers.
You are fighting Jews and the state that Jews created.
Yet another cowardly attempt to discriminate between killing Jews and anti-semitism. You want to kill Jews. That’s a fact. You are against (anti) Jews (semitism). Be proud of your anti-semitism. What difference does it make that “anti-semitism” has a bad rap. You are not responsible for Hitler’s actions. Your beef with the Jews is completely different.
Grow a couple and be honest, be proud. Just don’t be a coward. How can anyone respect you or what you have to say in such a case.
Posted by Firouz | August 8, 2008, 1:17 pm