Recent events in the Gaza Strip have heightened the tension within Palestinian society to levels unseen since Hamas’ takeover of Gaza last summer. Coming a month after Abbasshole realized that his weekly ‘negotiations’ with Olmert were in fact pointless and called for the first time for talks between Fatah and Hamas, the tension has brought to head a lot of the anger seething between the two sides and their popular support bases.
Since wresting control of Gaza from Fatah last June, the one thing Hamas can take total credit for is imposing some sort of law and order within the territory. Although its arrests of political opponents and other arbitrary policing methods can be draconian, reactionary and even silly, crime, violent family feuds and armed gangs have been have all but disappeared where once they were prevalent.
When a bomb went off on the Gaza City beach last week, killing 5 Hamas fighters and a little girl, the group immediately blamed elements within Fatah tied to the leadership in Ramallah, rounded up hundreds of Fatah men and closed down dozens of civil society institutions, including some not affiliated with Fatah. The crackdown was widely condemned across the Palestinian political spectrum and it wasn’t long before Fatah responded in turn with its own crackdown in the West Bank. (Note: yes, these two movements are meant to be fighting the Israeli occupation which controls both Gaza and the West Bank).
Two days ago, the police force in Gaza surrounded an area of the Sheja’iya neighborhood where part of the Hilles clan resides, demanding the residents give up men wanted in connection to the bombing. The residents refused and a gunbattle ensued, leaving 3 policemen and 6 residents dead. Fatah in the West Bank saw it as a massacre. Hamas says it was simply trying to apprehend suspects who refused to give themselves up.
The gunbattle concluded with the police and Hamas fighters securing the area, making several arrests, and uncovering large weapons caches of mortars, automatic weapons and explosives. A telling development for me, however, was the flight of 150 members of the Hilles clan, led by Fatah leader Ahmad Hilles, to Israel. At a time when Israeli forces shoot anybody coming close to the border, 150 Fatah men were allowed to run up to border crossings across the Israeli army’s self imposed ‘buffer zone’ without being harmed, and then allowed inside Israeli military bases and sent to Israeli hospitals for treatment to the wounded. Israel returned about 30 of the men to Gaza; 5 were arrested by Hamas and the rest set free. Others were sent to the West Bank town of Jericho, where they were presented by the Israeli army with new West Bank ID cards (while thousands of other Gazans in the West Bank have lived in fear for years of being discovered by the occupation forces), and, according to a top PA official will be absorbed into the PA’s security forces.
The Israeli army says the occupation’s Defense Minister, Ehud Barak, gave the order that the men be allowed in after requests from Egypt, Abbasshole and Salam Fayyad. This at the time when 230 men, women and children from Gaza have died over the last year because the Egyptian and Israeli authorities have refused to grant them permission to travel abroad for necessary medical attention.
That pretty much tells you all you need to know about the Palestinian Authority’s true stance towards the people of Gaza. While hundreds die due to a lack of medicine or treatment abroad, it intervenes to allow Fatah fighters to run to Israeli military bases and get transferred to the West Bank.
As ever, the most urgent concern amongst Palestinians is to unite behind a common strategy towards Israel. As ever, the failure comes right from the rotten top.
Related posts:
- Shoah Watch: The fifth day
- Shoah Watch: Sudden Pullout
- Ceasefire? Fuck No.
- One Day In
- Its on CNN now
That (sorta) clears up a bit of confusion after watching CEEFAX news today, Israelis let in 150 on one page and expel similar numbers on another page. Not much explanation, I really must start buying a decent paper again.
However ignorant and superficial the knowledge of us on the outside may be (and it is not our problem after all, do you fully understand the West Lothian question?) I don’t think there are too many illusions about Fatah, corrupt bunch of bastards.
You are right, a common purpose is needed but with a realistic viewpoint, a Palestinian state coexisting with a recognised Israel. Until Hamas accepts that principle you won’t get anywhere at all. Palestinian kids deserve better than being brought up in “refugee camp” for the next 20o years.
Posted by xoggoth | August 4, 2008, 2:45 pmTwo days ago, the police force in Gaza surrounded an area of the Sheja’iya neighborhood… demanding the residents give up men wanted in connection to the bombing.
This could have been written by Haaretz describing an IDF operation anywhere in the territories.
The residents refused and a gunbattle ensued, leaving 3 policemen and 6 residents dead. Fatah in the West Bank saw it as a massacre. Hamas says it was simply trying to apprehend suspects who refused to give themselves up.
Look, Mohammad, Hamas killed innocent civilians! Hamas surrounded a civilian area and began shooting wildly into people’s homes, businesses, restaurants, schools, mosques! That’s a WAR CRIME, Mohammad, right?! Where is the outrage? Where are the claims of disproportionate force? Where are the accusations of collective punishment?! Where is your credibility? Where is your honor?
The gunbattle concluded with the police and Hamas fighters securing the area…
Are you telling me the area wasn’t “secure” before this gunbattle? It was perfectly secure for the people who lived there. The resistance in this area was brutally suppressed by Hamas, who made the area secure for themselves! Where is your credibility, Mohammad? Where is your honor?
…making several arrests…
Hamas is not running a police force, Mohammad. They are running an illegal militia. Thus, these “arrests” are illegal, Mohammad. They are indefinite detentions, with a high probability of torture for those detained. Where is your credibility, Mohammad? Where is your honor?
…and uncovering large weapons caches of mortars, automatic weapons and explosives
Mohammad! You mean to tell me that the Palestinians have “caches of mortars, automatic weapons and explosive”?! I thought they were helpless, occupied people without so much as food to feed their starving children. Where did they get “large weapons caches”? Who paid for these “large weapons caches”? Against whom were these “large weapons caches” meant to be used?
Where is your credibility, Mohammad? Where is your honor? You have neither, you racist apologist for hatred and violence. The violence you so desperately seek to channel at Jews is now devouring your own society, your own people.
Yes, I’m loving this. After seeing Palestinians butcher my people for two decades, it’s good you get a taste of your own medicine. But if you think this situation is short lived, you are delusional.
The West Bank and Gaza are more divided than ever – politically, economically, even culturally and religiously. Politically cleansing each territory of the opposition is not the way to build consensus.
There has been no attempt at reconciliation, and there will not be one. This is power politics, not Sesame Street. A basic rule of Arab society is that those who amass power do not let go until it is pried from their cold dead hands.
For all intents and purposes, there are now two “Palestines”. Enjoy your civil war.
Posted by Firouz | August 4, 2008, 3:35 pmI like how anyone who is not Hamas is a collaborator. That’s it, Mohammad, reconcile with your Fatah brethren. Calling them all collaborators should do the trick!
Posted by Mitch | August 4, 2008, 3:41 pmThanks for your concern, Firouz.
Now, tell me, which is the best way to preserve the Jewish State: apartheid or ethnic cleansing?
Posted by Lowfields | August 5, 2008, 12:33 amNow, tell me, which is the best way to preserve the Jewish State
Letting people like You, Fadi, Will and Mohammed run the show.
Will you all please run for the next round of elections?
Posted by Anonymous | August 5, 2008, 9:34 amFatah has a right to resist the illegal occupation of Gaza by HAMAS. Enjoy your Frankenstein’s monster, folks. This is the real reason why Palestinians will never have a state.
Posted by programmer craig | August 5, 2008, 10:42 am“Against whom were these “large weapons caches” meant to be used?”
Well certainly not against Israeli’s, otherwise Israel wouldn’t have let them in and taken care of their wounds, that is why they are collaborators. You see any Palestinian Israel takes in and supports is a collaborator.
“Hamas killed innocent civilians”
No hamas killed fatah supported israeli collaborators who allow themselves to be used by israel to feul civil war. who have been warned time and time again to stop playing into israel’s hand but are too stupid to learn. One would have hoped they would have learned from south lebanon’s treacherous bunch .
“They are running an illegal militia”
The only thing that is illegal is Israel. and your support and arming of fatah militia’s before hamas took ful control while denying the palestinians food and today training fatah bastards to continue to stoke civil war. But it’s nothing new the secular bastards in the Middle east have always obliged to be your puppets I guess booze and women are too much of a temptation for the materialistic skum.
“But if you think this situation is short lived, you are delusional.”
No you are the only one who is disillusion money can only uphold fatah for so long and with olmert gone fatah will be exposed and they will end. as for your people being butchered, that is something you brought on yourselves and will end when you return to your countries and leave the palestines alone. Or it will end with you being continually butchered.
“A basic rule of Arab society is that those who amass power do not let go until it is pried from their cold dead hands”
That is only the rule of Arab society under foreign occupation . But once the puppets are exposed they will run with their tails between their legs like in southern lebanon . Plus no need for reconciliation with cowards and traitors its not as if they are any different from the israeli’s now is it ?
Posted by Anonymous | August 5, 2008, 10:44 amAnonymous,
No hamas killed fatah supported israeli collaborators…
You mean “resistance fighters”.
who allow themselves to be used by israel to feul civil war.
You mean, to “resist illegal occupation”.
But once the puppets are exposed they will run with their tails between their legs like in southern lebanon
Glad you mentioned southern Labanon! What do you think is going to happen to the Iranian puppets in Hezbollah? Do you prescribe the same medicine for them?
On a side note:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7534593.stm
An opinion poll released just before Mr Olmert’s announcement suggested Israeli voters thought Mr Netanyahu would make the best premier, ahead of Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni.
Which one will do a better job of destroying the illegal terrorist occupation forces of HAMAS?
Posted by programmer craig | August 5, 2008, 11:26 am“You mean, to “resist illegal occupation”.”
One can’t illegally occupy his own country. And hamas won the election fair and square by all international standards and with all Israel’s support of fatah non-withstanding. The only things that are illegal is israel and americas support of fatah and Israel’s presence.
“What do you think is going to happen to the Iranian puppets in Hezbollah?”
Iran isn’t foreign its our neighbor has been forever israel isn’t our neighbor nor of our religion thus they are foreign and they are america’s allies who are even more foreign.
You and your governments inability to understand who we see as foreign and who not is one of the reasons why you haven’t been able to do anything right in the middle east. To make it easy for you, all the people you consider arab and muslim are one no matter how much sectarian tension you create or how many borders you draw.
“Which one will do a better job of destroying the illegal terrorist occupation forces of HAMAS?”
Destroy ? rotfl really even if hamas was destroyed islamic resistance won’t be, we have fought off more than 4 crusades before what makes you think this one will be any different ? Netanyahu is dumber than olmert which is better for us as he will embarrass abbashole even more and force him to concede to hamas, you see the nitin yahoo isn’t so good with politics and divide and conquer games he is like your president just runs into walls with his head.
Posted by Anonymous | August 5, 2008, 11:43 amOne can’t illegally occupy his own country.
Says who? And which country belongs to Palestinians, anyway? Gaza is part of Egypt, taken by Israel in the 1967 war isn’t it?
And hamas won the election fair and square…
Blah blah blah. The government of Iraq won the elections fairly too, but it doesn’t stop people like you from praising the Iraqi resistance, does it?
The only things that are illegal is israel and americas support of fatah and Israel’s presence.
Lol. There’s a lot more about HAMAS that is illegal than that!
Iran isn’t foreign its our neighbor…
Really? Iran isn’t foreign?
Iran is your neighbor!?
I’m loving how you change the rules on the fly! Now you get to explain how Israeli Jews are “foreign” and “not neighbors” – it was their land before Arabs even existed as a people.
Destroy ? rotfl really even if hamas was destroyed islamic resistance won’t be
Oh, so it’s all about religion after all? Then why do you keep whining about hwo the US doesn’t help your Islamic resistance? news flash – the US is NOT a Muslim country. You didn’t know?
Why on earth would you expect a Christian country to help your Islamic causes? Do you think Americans are stupid or something? Suicidal, perhaps? Speaking of suicidal, though… perhaps we can assist your Islamic jihad in one way. We can help you achieve the coveted martyrdom.
By the way, thanks for being honest enough to point out that the Palestinian resistance is in fact motivated by Islamic jihad ideology. Not many of the asshats on this blog are willing to go that route. Perhaps because most of them aren’t Muslim…
Posted by programmer craig | August 5, 2008, 12:08 pmisrael isn’t our neighbor nor of our religion thus they are foreign
That’s interesting. You’re not a real Muslim. No muslim would call a Jew foreign, and certainly not a Palestinian. That’s like saying sand is foreign to Saudi, or cedar is foreign to Lebanon. You’re not a real muslim.
Perhaps what you are trying to do is pretend to be a Muslim, to have some sort of perverse credibility in espousing your vile desire to exterminate Jews. Pathetic.
You were born a Christian, but the concept of “an eye that sees and an ear that hears, and all your deeds are recorded in the Book” scares you, because of how much you jerked off as a child, or maybe your pastor abused you, so now you’re a socialist atheist prick who needs to reinvent himself to make his point. At least be proud of who you are.
Mohammad may be a radical anti-semite Islamist, and I am an observant Jew. We may fight one other in war one day, chas v’shalom, but at least we know where the other stands.
You’re a snake who believes nothing. Your concern for Muslims is about as skin deep as your desire to control them.
all the people you consider arab and muslim are one
Oh, thanks for clarifying that up. I had it all wrong, thinking that Sunnis consider Shia apostate dogs and Shia thinking that when their Imam Ali comes, all Sunnis will burn in the fires of Gehenom.
It can get confusing, you know, with all the Sunni-Shia ethnic cleansing and mass murder in Iraq and Lebanon and whatnot.
As for you all being one, the Palestinians I know would rather marry their daughters off to Jews than to Kuwaitis, and forget about Shia – they are considered lower than dirt.
You’re not a Muslim. No Muslim would speak with such ignorance.
Posted by Firouz | August 5, 2008, 1:24 pmwe have fought off more than 4 crusades
Haha! Wasn’t one of these the “children’s crusade”? You raped and enslaved the children and sold them to tribes in the Maghreb, if I remember correctly.
Big macho crusade crusher you are, anon
Posted by Mitch | August 5, 2008, 3:45 pmWe have seen Palestinians denigrating the legitimacy of other Palestinians, Palestinians making war on other Palestinians, and Palestinians arresting other Palestinians, while the Jewish state has come to the rescue of those Palestinians who fear for their lives. Israel has never looked so good.
That, from the Daily Star of Lebanon.
Posted by Sara | August 5, 2008, 5:52 pmMany clans have struggled to come to terms with the new power structure in Gaza and Hamas is trying to bring them to heel.
“There are about 6000 men in the Masri family, and Hamas knows that if it enters the family quarter it would face a battle far worse than [any] it has already fought,” a senior Masri figure has warned.
The Masri leadership refuses to co-operate with the new state of affairs. A clan leader said it needed to avenge the death of three of its fighters during the Hamas takeover, and said “the vendetta remains outstanding”.
But allegiance is a murky issue in the new Gaza. Another member of the clan complained that some of his relatives had joined Hamas and refused to act by the traditional practice of family loyalty.
What was it Mohammad was saying about unity against Israel?
As ever, the failure comes right from the rotten top.
No, it appears the failure is embedded in the foundation of Palestinian society – the clans and their barbaric tribal practices, like shooting someone because they didn’t have change for your mango!
Of course, as an Islamist, Mohammad agrees with me. Islamists are against the clans, which they view as backward and counterproductive to the great Islamist goal of unifying all Muslims to fight the West.
Right? Tell us how it is, Mohammad.
If clans persist in Saudi, after 1500 years of Islamic rule, then clans will survive Islamist rule in Gaza. And as long as the clans survive, barbarity will survive with them.
Posted by Mitch | August 5, 2008, 6:10 pm“Says who? “
Anyone with any two cents of brain which obviously doesn’t include you.
“Gaza is part of Egypt, taken by Israel in the 1967 war isn’t it?
“
Only in your version of history, it is part of Palestine and it was taken away from the Israeli’s by the Egyptian in the 1948 war, then the Israeli’s took it back in 1967 and they still control till this day ( sanctions and blockades ).
“The government of Iraq won the elections fairly too, “
Really ? how did it do that last I checked your government has more than 20,000 Iraqi’s arrested for not accepting the occupation not to mention the bombing of whole towns and the closing down of opposition newspapers which were opposed to the occupation. The only people who were allowed to field candidates were those who didn’t publicly oppose the occupation, but I guess that’s what you consider to be democracy and fair in the US right ? let me guess you’re republican and you think bush won fair and square too ?
“Iran is your neighbor!?
”
Sorry I forgot you were reading this and that as an American you don’t know geography or history ( you lack of knowledge of history has already been proven in your first quote ) so let me enlighten you. The Iranians live in the middle east and they border the last Arab country on the eastern borders of the Arab parts of the middle east so yes they are our fucking neighbors dumbo !!!!! and in the worst case scenario they are closer to us than you fucking yankies or European jews.
“Now you get to explain how Israeli Jews are “foreign” and “not neighbors” – it was their land before Arabs even existed as a people.”
And who said all the Palestinians are Arabs ? Most are of Phoenician origins and Canaanites origins, who predated the Israelites and the Israeli rule of Palestine was the shortest lived they only lasted for around 300 years, fuck the crusaders nearly lasted longer.
But even if I was to accept your argument most of the jews who left palestine did so under roman and christian rule and not under Arab rule, so its not our fault and if they return they return in peace without war not in the way the european jews came back.
Now a question to you what would be your stand if the UN decided to return the US to the red Indians and California to Mexico ? Even though as I noted we didn’t wipe the jews out of palestine it was the europeans ( romans and christians ).
“Then why do you keep whining about hwo the US doesn’t help your Islamic resistance?”
Whining ? where ? by reporting you bias and injustice that is whining ? No we are just exposing your lies we know you are a christian country and we know your intent in the middle east; but we need to expose you for what you are so Muslims to falsely believe that you really believe in freedom, for them, or any of that shit, plus we need to bring you down from your moral highground so you can’t create any new cuse beli’s to interfere in any other countries affairs in the future.
“perhaps we can assist your Islamic jihad in one way.”
Lol now that you mention it I remember the bastard prime minster of Lebanon siniora tell your ambassador in Lebanon to tell bush to stop praising him in public because it makes him look bad, and since you were asking how to defeat hamas , then thats how. Tell bush to publicly support them anyone he supports is going to get fucked anyway looool .
“By the way, thanks for being honest enough to point out that the Palestinian resistance is in fact motivated by Islamic jihad ideology”
NO I didn’t say that, some of it is but not all Fatah and the other factions aren’t; they are secular and you know that so stop lying it makes you look bad. Now what’s wrong with Islam mandating the defense of ones country and family ? Wouldn’t you defend your country and family if a stronger Muslim country was to come along and give the red Indians a state or 5 out of your states ? and your not even a Muslim even though I know how touting jihad around is a form of demonizing Muslims and you’ll think you won the argument that way; but not on this blog as most of the people here are past that naive argument, try another one
Posted by Anonymous | August 5, 2008, 7:31 pm"Haha! Wasn't one of these the "children's crusade"? You raped and enslaved the children and sold them to tribes in the Maghreb, if I remember correctly."Well you remember your lies correctly that for sure but they weren't children and that wasn't one of the crusades I was referring too either.Damn even Wikipedia corrected it :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children%27s_Crusade
Posted by Anonymous | August 5, 2008, 3:35 pm"It can get confusing, you know, with all the Sunni-Shia ethnic cleansing and mass murder in Iraq and Lebanon and whatnot."Really I didn't know Sunni's and Shia where killing each other in Lebanon I though Hariri 's Sunni party had issues with Hezbollah ? You know Hariri who is funded and armed by the Americans and Saudi's but neither represent sunni's or shia. If you want further proof just remember what happened after hizbollah trashed you a few years ago, What did you see in egypt and syria and every other sunni country ? our differences are your wish and you inflame them as a means of divide and conquer but its all temporary and trust me when we get the chance the one thing we all agree on is your defeat and you know it ! As for Iraq that's America's game of Divide and conquer and its no different from what the British did in Ireland and they weren't Muslim all politics and can be undone as easily as it was done.
Posted by Anonymous | August 5, 2008, 3:42 pmAnon, you’re an embarassment. These are abject lies.
the closing down of opposition newspapers which were opposed to the occupation
Ask any Iraqi if he feels he is missing out on “opposition” news coverage. Iraq has an incredibly free and vibrant press. The only news outlets closed down were those run by al Qaeda. I’m starting to get the feeling you have an itch in your pants for bin Laden.
The only people who were allowed to field candidates [in Iraq] were those who didn’t publicly oppose the occupation
So Muqtada al Sadr and the Mehdi Army support the occupation? Sadr has a large block in the Iraqi parliament. This is just the most obvious example, you uneducated fool.
you think bush won fair and square too?
Yes, he did, by over 100,000 votes in Ohio, and more than 3 million votes nationwide.
Israeli rule of Palestine was the shortest lived they only lasted for around 300 years
There was no Palestine. Before Israel, Caanan was ruled by 30 kings. The Jews destroyed and displaced those nations as they settled the land, where they built a civilization which endured for a thousand years.
It was about 100+ years from settlement of the land until the 1st Temple was built – Kings Saul, David and Solomon. The 1st Temple stood for 410 years. There was a short exile of 70 years. The 2nd Temple stood for 420 years, until it was destroyed by the Romans in 70 AD. All in all, 1000 years of continuous rule. And, of course, Jews continued to inhabit the land for the next 2000 years, continuously.
so its not our fault
Who is blaming you? You are uneducated. Go read a book.
if they return they return in peace without war not in the way the european jews came back
The Yishuv was built peacefully, on land that was purchased from Arabs and Turks. Arab mobs initiated periodic violence against the Jews, which the British did little to stop. This ultimately convinced the Zionist leadership of the need for an independent, Jewish self defense force to protect Jewish neighborhoods and villages – the Haganah.
Now what’s wrong with Islam mandating the defense of ones country and family?
You’re not MUSLIM! Why are you still pretending that you are a Muslim and can speak for Muslims. Muslims don’t speak this way, much less devout Muslims or Islamists. You’re not Muslim.
Wouldn’t you defend your country and family if a stronger Muslim country was to come along and give the red Indians a state
Such a whiner. Israel kicked Arab butt in too many wars to list here. Let’s give credit where credit is due. America jumped on board only after 1967, when Israel had earned the right to exist on the field of battle.
I know how touting jihad around is a form of demonizing Muslims
We don’t have to demonize you! You’re nothing. You’re a fraud. You’re not a muslim!
What did you see in egypt and syria and every other sunni country?
I saw widespread condemnation of Hezbollah by the head of every Sunni state, including all Gulf countries, Egypt and Jordan. The Sunni world experienced a frightful awakening to growing Iranian power across the Shia Crescent. With a snap of fingers in Tehran, the entire Middle East can be consumed in violence.
From that moment, every Sunni Arab state has worked with America and Israel to counter Shia power in the Middle East. Saudi Arabia has even discussed allowing Israeli bombers access to Saudi airspace for a mission against Iran. The Sunnis are not worried about Jews. There are 6 million Jews in Israel, and as long as the Arabs leave them alone, they don’t bother anyone. Iran is 70 million people, with ambitions to control the Middle East.
You’re uneducated and an embarassment to real Muslims. You need to stop pretending to be Muslim. It’s offensive.
Posted by Firouz | August 5, 2008, 10:55 pm“red Indians”?
Indians live in India.
You’ve watched too many cowboy movies, boy.
Posted by Anonymous | August 5, 2008, 10:58 pmAnonymous,
Really ? how did it do that
By winning a majority of the vote, in a very large turnout. The way governments usually get elected, democratically?
last I checked your government has more than 20,000 Iraqi’s arrested for not accepting the occupation
Oh, you mean those “resistance fighters” right? Like the fatah resistance fighters that HAMAS thugs arrested/killed?
Sorry I forgot you were reading this and that as an American you don’t know geography or history ( you lack of knowledge of history has already been proven in your first quote ) so let me enlighten you.
Just what I need. History and geography lessons from a guy who thinks there is a country called “Palestine” on the map lol.
The Iranians live in the middle east and they border the last Arab country on the eastern borders of the Arab parts of the middle east so yes they are our fucking neighbors dumbo !!!!!
a) Israel is in the very center of the middle east. they are not your neighbors?
b) France, Italy, Turkey and Sub Saharan Africa are also your neighbors then! So what was all that fuss about the french in Algeria? Just a little friendly neighborhood cooperation going on then! Right? And since you Arabs felt that India and Pakistan were your neighbors as well, back in the day, we should let them in the club too, right?
And who said all the Palestinians are Arabs ? Most are of Phoenician
Nope. Sorry. The Phoenicians lived in the more desireable land to the north.
Palestinians are a combination of the Philistines (greeks) and the Canaanites who were possible some form of indigenous goatfucking people. I get to make racist comments now, since you did first, right?
who predated the Israelites
Actually, the Hebrews predate the Philistines by quite a bit. The first mention of the Philistines in any history is when the Egyptians documented them invading Sinai from the sea. At about the time of Moses. There is no evidence that the Canaanites are older than the Hebrews. There isn’t much history of the Canaanites at ALL, prior to about 3000 years ago.
and the Israeli rule of Palestine was the shortest lived they only lasted for around 300 years
Arguing semantics, are we? Well, Palestinians have a grand total of 0 years of self rule. So they still got you beat. Sorry.
Posted by programmer craig | August 6, 2008, 1:23 amBy the way,
Whining ? where ? by reporting you bias and injustice that is whining ?
Why would any sane Islamist (if there is such a thing) expect “unbiased” treatment of his jihad by a Christian country? You’d kill us all if you could, or at the least subjugate us to Islam… in what way is that something we should address objectively? lol.
That’s the death knell of the Palestinian cause you just sounded. No further analysis is necessary.
Posted by programmer craig | August 6, 2008, 1:36 amI am so discusted from Fatah and Hamas and the Palestinians. Israel is sure having its best time watching us fight. Can’t we find another alternative that has new clean blood, neither Fatah or Hamas will bring us any good
Posted by Ali | August 6, 2008, 7:43 amCan’t we find another alternative that has new clean blood, neither Fatah or Hamas will bring us any good
Ali, you mean you want to overthrow and exterminate BOTH Fatah AND Hamas? That’s what you will have to do for your “national unity” plan to work, of course, since they won’t let go of their hard earned power easily.
All you will end up doing is creating yet another armed faction. But hey, then you can have three governments – one each in Gaza, Judea and Samaria!
The division of the Palestinians is real, based on sound geopolitics, not emotions. You’re not going to fix these rifts with tea and knafa.
Posted by Firouz | August 6, 2008, 12:43 pm”I’m loving how you change the rules on the fly! Now you get to explain how Israeli Jews are “foreign” and “not neighbors” – it was their land before Arabs even existed as a people.”
wrong.
israeli jews ARE foreign, the jews that were in palestine 2000 years ago were not. even before 1948, the native PALESTINIAN jews were living in peace with everybody else in palestine. my grandfather tells me stories of going to his jewish NEIGHBOR’S WEDDING.
jews living in palestine, NATIVE jews, had a right to call palestine their homeland as much as the palestinians do. israelis do NOT.
you israelis are all from europe or america, not the middle east, and NOT from 2000-year-ago palestine.
and the basis of israel is wrong, you cant drive people out of their land and call it yours because people of the same religion were there 2000 yrs ago. if thats legitimate, then i guess the native americans can drive the people out of america and send them all back to africa and europe and latin america and asia, and it would be legitimate.
Posted by Anonymous | August 7, 2008, 10:59 amisraeli jews ARE foreign, the jews that were in palestine 2000 years ago were not
Wrong. It wasn’t called “Palestine” 2000 years ago. It was called Judaea.
jews living in palestine, NATIVE jews, had a right to call palestine their homeland as much as the palestinians do. israelis do NOT.
Blah blah blah. Most “Pealestinians” who lived in Palestine in 1948 were from families that moved moved there from other Arab countries in the early 1900s. Same as the Jews. And how about that Egyptian bastard Yassir Arafat? What right did he have to live in Palestine?
you israelis are all from europe
I’m not Israeli. I’m not even Jewish
and the basis of israel is wrong, you cant drive people out of their land and call it yours because people of the same religion were there 2000 yrs ago.
That isn’t what happened. There were more Jews living in Palestine than Arabs. In 1948. That’s a fact. The Un proposed a division of land based on the respective populations. As I recall, the proposed state of Israel got 60% of the land, and the state of Palestine was to get 40% of it. That was considred uinacceptable. And it was Arabs who famously tried to drive Jews off of their own land, not the other way around. Unfortunately for Palestinians, that plan backfired catastrophically. Why blame Jews for successfully defending themselves and their land? that’s just stupid. And who can blame them for taking yours away from you, after you repeatedly hosted Arab Armies on YOUR land to invade THEIRS?
Posted by programmer craig | August 7, 2008, 12:52 pmDo you even understand that the name “Palestine”, “Filistine” was what the Romans renamed the Jewish kingdom, to add insult to injury and demonstrate to the ancient world what happens when a province of Rome revolts?
The very name your people have adopted is born of an insult against Jews.
Posted by Anonymous | August 7, 2008, 9:14 pmJews living in palestine, NATIVE jews, had a right to call palestine their homeland as much as the palestinians do.
Who asked you where Jews can and can’t live. Who asked you where they did or did not come from. Who are you to tell Jews, who have survived 3000 years, intact as a people, what their identity is. You’re nothing; some shmuck with a keyboard, pretending to be Muslim.
It’s unbelievable, the charges of racism and fascism that fly out of you people, while your own hatred, desire for violence and murder against Jews is preserved intact and unadulterated.
And that’s all it is, simple hatred. You long for the time when the Jews were your dhimmies, subservient and at your mercy, and the hardest decision you had to make was, to pogrom or not to pogrom.
This situation will NEVER happen again. EVER. EVER. You will NEVER control the fate of the Jews. E.V.E.R.
When we want your opinion on who is a Jew, or where Jews can live, or what our history is, we’ll give it to you.
We actually have a history, unlike other cultures, who suddenly discovered their nationhood in the 1960s.
A hundred years ago the villages in Judea and Samaria were still fighting blood feuds amongst each other and defending themselves against marauding Bedouins. You were nothing but villages and clans. The only thing that defined a common identity was that these clans don’t have a direct blood link to the Prophet, which pretty much made you the toilet of the Arab world. Not much has changed.
Posted by Firouz | August 7, 2008, 9:40 pmPC, are you absolutely sure ITS A FACT that there were more Jews than Palestinians in Palestine in 1948?
That just clarifies the depth of the your ignorance.
Posted by Mohammad | August 8, 2008, 10:51 amthe proposed state of Israel got 60% of the land, and the state of Palestine was to get 40% of it
The vast majority of the land the Jews received was useless. Everything south of Beersheva is desert, desert, and… more desert. Today, 60% of Israel’s total land is desert, after decades of wildly successful reforestation and irrigation programs.
Thanks, UN! That’s fair. While others fight clan wars, and innovate new ways to murder Jews, we’ll make the desert bloom.
Posted by Firouz | August 8, 2008, 4:46 pmThis deserves it’s own comment:
Clans fight to keep it all in the family
Posted by Firouz | August 8, 2008, 5:01 pm