Three of the seven Fulbright grantees from Gaza have had their visas canceled finally by the US: one, after flying to Washington only to be told by border security that his visa was no longer valid.
The saga of the journey to Jordan strikes me as a remarkably hallmark Palestinian travel experience.
If Israel finally had information in the end to send over to the US authorities to cause them to cancel the three visas, it strikes me as publicly admitting that the seven were originally denied based on no information whatsoever. (Whether that information is accurate or not… i mean, clearly, the kid just out of high school is a terrorist planning to use his education to bomb and kill.)
I’d like to see the security information forwarded by Israel. Who wants to place a bet that it says “Palestinian, male, born in Gaza= DENIED.”
Gisha, an Israeli organization aimed at protecting Palestinian freedom of movement, says the problems the Palestinian students faced are not out of the ordinary.“In addition to the particular students who did not receive visas for technical reasons or unexplained security reasons, there are hundreds of students in the Gaza Strip who were accepted by universities abroad and have valid visas,” said Gisha executive director Sari Bashi. But, she added, “Israel issues a comprehensive ban on students from Gaza going abroad, as part of its policy of collective punishment toward Gaza residents, thereby impinging on the right to education of hundreds of talented young people who want to study, develop and create a better future in our region.”
Related posts:
- The Threat Of Education
- New Email: Sorry, You Can Forget About Your Future
- Weekend Reading: Israel’s ‘invisible hand’ in Gaza
- Haifa University Hinders Free Speech
- Zionuts vs. the UAE
i mean, clearly, the kid just out of high school is a terrorist planning to use his education to bomb and kill
Emily, you shouldn’t make posts when you don’t even understand the subject matter. The Fulbright scholarship is for post-graduates. That means these folks all have at least a bachelor’s degree already. They aren’t “just out of high school”. But even if they were, what difference would that make? Many terrorists are “just out of high school”.
The US did the right thing. Since an exception was made to grant them visas in the first place, I’m confidant the visas weer not canceled without cause. Whether they were terrorists or not, they surely were no friends of the United States. And the State Department should not be paying for the education of our enemies. That’s MY tax money being used in the Fulbright scholarship program.
Posted by programmer craig | August 6, 2008, 10:24 amWhat is so difficult to understand…. By denying education you simply create fuel for extremism.
Is there a fear of having an educated arab society?
Posted by Mr. Friendly | August 6, 2008, 11:09 amPC — either you or Haaretz are full of shit:
“Last Sunday it was decided that two of the three – scholar Fidaa Abed and high school student Ahmed Ma’ari – would head to Jordan and proceed to the U.S from there.”
Is Ahmed Ma’ari the exception?
Posted by Will | August 6, 2008, 11:11 amWhat is so difficult to understand…. By denying education you simply create fuel for extremism.
The al Qaeda leadership is highly educated. They are all doctors and engineers. Level of education and extremist proclivities have nothing in common. It is a tired, careless argument.
The desire to conduct war against Israel, or Westerners, for that matter, stems from beliefs that will not be shaken by a graduate dissertation at Yale.
Posted by Mitch | August 6, 2008, 1:36 pmWhat is so complicated? The BBC article is very clear.
Seven Gaza students were granted Fullbright scholarships. Four, including 3 women, were allowed by Israel to leave Gaza and apply for a visa at the US consulate in Jerusalem.
Israel denied three Gazan men the ability to leave Gaza for Jerusalem, and they were interviewed for a visa application on the Gazan border by US officials.
In the two days that followed, the Israelis presented their evidence against these three men, and their visas were then revoked by the US.
Open and shut case.
By the way, these are definitely not “kids out of high school”, unless Palestinians finish high school in their late 20s. Look at the photograph!
There has been quite a lot of bitter, angry sarcasm in Will’s posts of late.
Posted by Firouz | August 6, 2008, 1:53 pmIs anyone really surprised by this, Israel has denied the Gaza people everything else, from food, housing (unless it’s tents) electricity or water (unless they poison the wells first)
This goes only to show the ignorance of the Israeli government, and hatred they have for Arabs.
Posted by Anonymous | August 6, 2008, 8:54 pmAnd now it’s America denying Gazans with a PhD in terror… The poor Palestinians just can’t get a break.
Posted by Firouz | August 6, 2008, 9:02 pm“… the Israelis presented their evidence against these three men, and their visas were then revoked by the US…. Open and shut case.”
So, an “open and shut case” is when someone presents some evidence, is it?
Do you even know what that evidence was? Was it anything more substantial than they were Arab?
Or are Israelis gentically incapable of lying, distorting, breaking the law, manipulating evidence…….?
You’re a racist bigot, F, and you will be ignored from now on.
Posted by Lowfields | August 6, 2008, 11:58 pmWas it anything more substantial than they were Arab?
Obviously, since Israel had no problems with 4 Gazans who are now on the Fullbright program, including 3 women and 1 man.
Clearly, the US consulate in Jerusalem went out of it’s way to get these three approved for a visa, taking the unusual step of interviewing them at the Gazan border.
The evidence the Israelis presented was sufficient for American officials to backtrack on their enthusiasm for these three and cancel the visas.
Open and shut case.
As for you, Lowfields, “There will be no concessions on preserving Jewish life.” Your desire to maintain the option to murder Jews, indiscriminately, is not a basis for anything, except Israeli security operations. Enjoy.
Posted by Firouz | August 7, 2008, 5:32 amThis is an important point, so I wanted to post it up higher, for everyone to read. From an exchange I had with Lo’ here:
Me: “There will be no concessions on preserving Jewish life.”
You: “Sorry, there is no point in arguing any further with a facist.”
That says it all right there.
The situation is clear for both of us. I will not compromise on securing Jewish life, and you will not compromise on retaining the option to end Jewish life.
Why do you feel the need to start defending yourself? It is such a weak path to take, and unnecessary. You’re doing this for yourself, for your children, for your people. Retaining the option to murder Jews is part of how you view yourself. Be proud of who you are.
You’re certainly not going to see me risk the lives of my people because someone who wants the option to kill my people called me a racist for wanting to protect them.
I have priorities in this world, and so do you. Don’t be so defensive. You are who you are.
I’m sick and tired of all the pansy-ass Palestinian men on this blog. You’re all so confused about your identity. You want to retain the option to kill Jews, and yet you are afraid of being seen as anti-semitic. How can anyone respect this? Stand your ground. Be men, not kharoufs.
Posted by Firouz | August 7, 2008, 6:37 amThe situation is rather clear for us all. You deem Jewish life to be of higher worth than Palestinian life, and consider Palestinians to be a ‘demographic threat’. That is racist.
Your tiny little mind lacks the ability to view criticism or anger towards Israel as anything but feeding off anti-Semitic tendencies.
Arguing with you is a pointless exercise.
Posted by Mohammad | August 7, 2008, 7:52 amAnd I’ll repeat mine………
You: “There will be no concessions on preserving Jewish life.”
You are possibly the most inanely stupid person I have ever wasted keyboard time with.
You can’t even see the above line is fascist, racist, supremecist, because you’re blinded by your own bigotry. You clearly believe that Jewish is more important than Palestinian, Arab or African life.
That. Means. You’re. A. Fascist.
And not a very smart one at that….
Posted by Lowfields | August 7, 2008, 9:04 amMohammad,
You deem Jewish life to be of higher worth than Palestinian life, and consider Palestinians to be a ‘demographic threat’. That is racist.
And you consider Palestinian life to be of higher worth than Jewish life, do you not? So you too are a racist? lol.
I’ll be the first to admit i consider American lives to be of more worth than non-American lives. It’s called “us or them” and every people in the history of man have had the same attitude. If it is “us or them” I want it to be them. And so does everyone else on the planet, including you. Sane people prefer to avoid getting into “us or them” situations, because they prefer not to have to kill or be killed.
firouz is right. Arabs need to start being mature enough and responsible enough to admit they aren’t the helpless victims they pretend to be. When you support jihad (in any form) you are supporting the killing of your enemies. Don’t act so shocked when they decide they don’t want to be killed, and come to kill you instead. That’s just human nature.
Posted by programmer craig | August 7, 2008, 9:48 amIt’s a very simple concept, Lo’. I’m surprised, having explained it to you three times now, that it has still not sunk in.
Me: “There will be no concessions on preserving Jewish life.”
You: “Sorry, there is no point in arguing any further with a facist.”
Me: “The situation is clear for both of us. I will not compromise on securing Jewish life, and you will not compromise on retaining the option to end Jewish life.”
You: “You can’t even see the above line is fascist, racist, supremecist, because you’re blinded by your own bigotry. You clearly believe that Jewish is more important than Palestinian, Arab or African life.”
Shall we repeat this game? I’ll remind you that there will never be a compromise that endangers Jewish life. You will respond how unfair it is that I won’t let you kill Jews, and how I am a Nazi for not allowing you to kill my people.
This game will continue, until you do what I suggested days ago: “Reconsider your posture so that Jewish life and Palestinian human rights are not mutually exclusive. This is the basis on which I view the situation.”
So long as you wish to endanger Jewish life, your rights mean nothing to me. It is not merely a matter of my personal preference. It is a matter of Halacha. If you have an issue with it, take it up with G-d.
You can call me whatever name you wish. The Jews are not leaving. You can start another intifada. The Jews are not leaving. You can beat your wife until she is blue. The Jews are not leaving.
Until your people accept that retaining the option to murder Jews is unacceptable, your people will remain behind the Security Barrier, living with checkpoints, rubber bullets and the occasional airstrike.
There is no Jewish law on Palestinian demographics. The only law of relevance deals with preserving life, all life, starting with Jewish life.
That. Means. You’re. A. Fascist.
When you go to a hospital, do you visit every single patient? No, that’s ridiculous! You visit your family member who is sick first. Does that make you fascist? Does that mean you don’t care about others? Family comes first. I never thought I would have to explain that to a Palestinian. You are a Palestinian, aren’t you, [Name]?
There will be no compromises on the safety of my family.
It’s your life wasting away. Sad, I know, but your choices have consequences. The Jews are not leaving. That’s all there’s to it.
Posted by Firouz | August 7, 2008, 10:35 pmI understand it’s difficult for some here to read, much less comprehend, all of my commentary on this blog. For the benefit of those who missed it the first time, the “demographic time bomb” is not an issue I am concerned with. It means nothing to me, frankly, though I understand the premise for it fully. It’s a tool of debate, nothing more.
I’ve written extensively on this subject in commentaries spread around this blog, and preserved for my personal use here. My comments:
You were discussing the “demographic time bomb”. I reject the notion that Palestinian infants constitute a threat to Jews in Israel. The very idea is racist and unjust at its core.
Palestinian adults strapping themselves with bomb belts and firing rockets indiscriminately at Israeli populations centers constitutes a threat to Jews in Israel. This threat is real, and should be dealt with.
I know, the “demographic time bomb” is such a perfect weapon… but not against me. Have as many kids as you want. It’s a blessing for Ishmael.
Teach them to hate and murder Jews, G-d forbid, and their lives will be as wasted as the previous generation.
For those of you with an Ialamic education, I’ll make this simple. In a Palestinian blood feud, numbers matter. Against the armies of the Living G-d, the King of Kings, it is sand in the fingernails.
Posted by Firouz | August 7, 2008, 11:03 pmPC, no I don’t consider Jewish life to be inferior to Palestinian life. Just because you and your fellow Zionists find it difficult to look at life unless its through the prism of ethnic supremacy, it doesn’t mean that applies to the rest of us.
I believe all life is equal. However, I believe those who do apply their supremacist ideals on others and oppress them based on a racial or nationalistic basis should be fought.
Posted by Mohammad | August 8, 2008, 10:55 amI believe those who do apply their supremacist ideals on others and oppress them based on a racial or nationalistic basis should be fought.In other words, you wish to fight – kill – one people for the benefit of another. Unless you mean fighting in Chess?If you advocate killing people, for whatever reason, that means their lives mean less to you than the cause you are fighting for.For example, let's say you wanted to fight Jews to force them to remove the checkpoints. Then Jewish life is less important to you than the ability of your people to move freely.If one life was really worth the same to you as another, then you would never fight anyone, because their life is worth the same as yours, so what difference does it make if they die or you die?And certainly you would never try to kill someone in exchange for human rights like land ownership and freedom of movement, which are below the most basic human right to life in priority.You are making the same choices about the value of life that everyone else is, Mohammad. You simply choose to lie about them, whether to us, or to yourself.
Posted by Victor | August 8, 2008, 8:01 am“…let’s say you wanted to fight Jews to force them to remove the checkpoints. Then Jewish life is less important to you than the ability of your people to move freely.”
Yes! At last….! Someone more stupid, more morally and ethically blind than Firouz!
I didn’t think it was possible…
So, those Jews in the Warsaw ghetto who decided to try to overthrow the Nazi control of the city were actually racist fascists implementing the practice of genocide?
You. Fucking. Retard.
Let me spell this out: Israel is illegally occupying another people’s territory through military force, and as they are doing so they are stealing land and water resources, building racist colonies, controlling airpsace, trade and freedom of movement, they bulldoze houses over disabled people, they kill children playing football, they detain people without charge on levels that makes Guantanamo look like the Holiday Inn in Cancun…
And any attempts to shake off this militarily -enforced apartheid oppression – as Palestinians are allowed to do under the provisions of the Geneva Convention and the International Commission on Human Rights – makes them FASCIST because they are fighting for a cause?
So, what explains the 10-1 ratio of Palestinian deaths to Israeli deaths…?
Of course, you do realise that your statement is a clear concession that Israel is a racist, fascist, apartheid state – because every Palestinian death was the result of “a cause”, and that their policies was a clear sign Arab life was worth less than Zionist conquest and ethnic cleansing.
Well done.
Fuckwit.
Posted by Lowfields | August 9, 2008, 3:18 amOkay, here’s the thing, F…
And I’ll try to make this simple.
Military occupation of West Bank: Illegal.
Resistance to occupation: Legal.
So, in my book – and in the book of most sane members of the human race – armed criminals have less rights than law-abiding civilians.
Therefore, I do believe that a Jewish soldier operating in a foreign country to uphold an illegal occupation is a legitimate target for armed resistance – and that it his function as a armed member of an occupying power that makes him a legitimate target, not his race.
That is protected by international law.
Now, I would also argue that it would be perfectly moral for a Palestinian to kill, say, an Uzi-wielding illegal settler from Brooklyn who’d already killed two Palestinian farmers simply trying to collect their olive harvest.
Does your statement “there will be no concession to preserve Jewish life” include or excliude that scenario?
Posted by NOX | August 9, 2008, 4:00 amSo, those Jews in the Warsaw ghetto who decided to try to overthrow the Nazi control of the city were actually racist fascists implementing the practice of genocide?
Are you really going to compare the West Bank with the Warsaw Ghetto, Lo? That’s a new low, even for you. Yes, the West Bank is JUST LIKE the Warsaw Ghetto. We can see this clearly from the facts:
Between 1941 and 1943, starvation, disease and deportations to concentration camps and extermination camps dropped the population of the ghetto from an estimated 450,000 to approximately 71,000. In 1943 the Warsaw Ghetto was the scene of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, the first urban rebellion against the Nazi occupation of Europe.
Are you satisfied that your comparison is perhaps the most obscene ever devised on Kabob? I’m not. I think we need to press this point, to make it clear to you the difference between being exterminated in propaganda, and being exterminated in reality.
Average food rations in 1941 for Jews in Warsaw were limited to 253 kcal, compared to 2,325 kcal for gentile Poles and 5,613 kcal for Germans.
253kcal converts to 253000cal or 253Cal (big “C” – the unit of energy most commonly associated with food in America). One McDonalds Hamburger is 250Cal. One large Sprite, 32fl oz, is 310Cal! These people were on a diet of 253Cal for YEARS! That sounds EXACTLY like the West Bank, right, Lo? I thought so. No, I’m not done yet, you little bitch.
Over 100,000 of the Ghetto’s residents died due to rampant disease or starvation, as well as random killings, even before the Nazis began massive deportations of the inhabitants from the Ghetto’s Umschlagplatz to the Treblinka extermination camp during Operation Reinhard.
Rampant disease and starvation resulting in the deaths of 100,000 in one year are commonplace in the West Bank, right LO? But “how Lo is Lo enough”? Let’s find out!
Between Tisha B’Av (July 23) and Yom Kippur (September 21) of 1942, about 254,000 Ghetto residents were sent to Treblinka and murdered there.
Sorry, I need to translate for Palestinians. Your people start shooting at each other because someone insulted someone’s wife’s cooking, 8 people die, and you call that a “clan war”. Europeans fight REAL wars, for extermination. Real extermination, not the propaganda version you are used to.
By the end of 1942, it was clear that the deportations were to their deaths, and many of the remaining Jews decided to fight.
Just like in the West Bank, right Lo?
According to the official report [during the final battle, April 19-23rd] at least 56,065 people were killed on the spot or deported to Nazi concentration and death camps, mostly to Treblinka.
That’s four days of fighting. 56,065 people… dead. Can you conceptualize that number, Lo? Let me help you. The population of Jenin is 35,760. The population of Qalqilya is 44,700. The population of Tulkarm is 59,000. Make a mental anchor. That’s how many Jews died fighting in the Warsaw Ghetto uprising in 4 days; the entire population of Tulkarm. We’re not even talking about the concentration camps; this is just the battle in the Ghetto.
You’re so concerned for your people, so mortified that Israeli factories are powered by the burning bodies of Palestinian children, that you choose to resist! To fight! Right Lo?
You wrap yourself the mantle of freedom and justice, going so far as to claim that YOU are fighting in the tradition of the Warsaw Ghetto uprising!
I think it takes a European to understand the concept of real extermination. Perhaps that is the issue. When Arabs talk of exterminating Jews, they mean “well stab a few helpless Jewish kids, shoot some rounds in the air, maybe fire off a few rockets at Jewish cities”, and then we will go have dinner at Uncle Saed’s.
When Jews hear Arabs talking of exterminating Jews, they think “they want to kill us to the very last Jew”. Of course, real extermination of Jews in Arab lands is also not unheard of.
Posted by Firouz | August 11, 2008, 12:33 pmWay to wilfully misrespresent the point again… but at least it gave you the opportunity to dive head-long into your Holocaust-justifies-everything mode.
Your bigotry keeps blinding you, F.
But it’s my fault as I keep forgetting I’ve got to keep it simple.
Let’s rehash:
F: “There will be no concessions on preserving Jewish life.”
Me: “Sorry, there is no point in arguing any further with a facist.”
F: “I will not compromise on securing Jewish life, and you will not compromise on retaining the option to end Jewish life.”
This is why you’re a racist, and why you didn’t understand the above point:
You believe that Palestinians have no right to resist oppression, apartheid and occupation for the sole reason that the perpetrators are Jewish.
Because “there is no concession when it comes to preserving Jewish life.”
Right?
I, on the other hand, along with most other members of the human race with an IQ above 90, believe the Palestinians have no right to resist oppression, apartheid and occupation because the perpetrators are engaging inhuman and illegal oppression, apartheid and occupation. They could be Jews, they could be from Mars.
The point isn’t their race – it’s their criminal actions.
You can blind yourself with the infantile, self-serving fallacy that the Palestinians are somehow racist for resisting ocupation – but it does little more than underpin your own racist belief that Israel Jews are somehow immune from the repercussions of their brutality.
No, please, fuck off.
Posted by Lowfields | August 11, 2008, 11:17 pmShit!!!!! HIDEOUS TYPO!
“I, on the other hand, along with most other members of the human race with an IQ above 90, believe the Palestinians have [DELETE THE "NO"] right to resist oppression, apartheid and occupation because the perpetrators are engaging inhuman and illegal oppression, apartheid and occupation. They could be Jews, they could be from Mars.”
Of course I believe Palestinains HAVE THE RIGHT TO RESIST OCCUPATION, APARTHEID AND OCCUPATION…. and it is enshrined in international law.
And the race of the perpertrators is UTTERLY IRRELEVANT to the exercise of that right.
Posted by Lowfields | August 12, 2008, 12:20 amat least it gave you the opportunity to dive head-long into your Holocaust-justifies-everything mode
Is this cookie cutter response really necessary, or justified? Talk about bigotry! You compared the Palestinians in the West Bank to Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto. I felt it necessary to inform your ridiculous, shallow and propagandistic analogy, which is the result of sheer, willful ignorance. Nowhere did I say that “Holocaust-justifies-everything”. You could have just responded with, “you’re right, it wasn’t a good analogy”, instead of continuing this meaningless ping pong match.
In fact, let’s try it. I’ll give you a chance to say, “it wasn’t a good analogy”, and then I’ll proceed to your other points. There is a difference between fighting a war and fighting facts. We should all abstain from the later.
Posted by Firouz | August 12, 2008, 9:45 amThe analogy is 100% valid.
You are trying to set up a scenario where an occupied people are prevented from resisting the occupation purely because of the race of their occupiers.
Therefore I conjured up another occupation from history.
And just as the Jews weren’t seeking to “murder Ayrans” in their attempt to alleviate the hell of the Warsaw ghetto, the Palestinians aren’t engaged in the policy of ethnic cleansing when seeking the overthrow of their oppressors – in this case, Israeli Jews.
The point is, F, the goal of resistance – any resistance – is to end oppression. Yet you would have us believe that resistance is actually a desire to single out a racial group for extermination.
That’s why you’re a fucking idiot.
And a racist.
Posted by Lowfields | August 13, 2008, 12:15 amLo, you can’t do this by yourself. If it was a challenge, that’s one thing, but this is just not fair. This is precisely why I always tell Arabs to let their women handle the propaganda. Just trust me on this one. They’re masterful at it; the men can’t think even one step ahead.
Yes, Lo. The Palestinian struggle is “100%” equivalent with the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising. But please don’t tell anyone. I’m begging you. Don’t mention it to anyone!
Posted by Firouz | August 13, 2008, 9:37 amI repeat: You are a fucking idiot.
Posted by Lowfields | August 13, 2008, 10:39 amYou, however, are very intelligent.
Is this your daughter, Lowfields?
Posted by Anonymous | August 13, 2008, 10:48 amI realy don’t care if that students has just finished high school or his Bachelor degree, what I care for is why deny him a chance to continue his eductaion and have a brighter future since the kid is smart and talented, why should Israel or any country restrcit the mocement of its people to anywhere? Geneva conventions are words on papers in Israel!
Posted by Ali | August 17, 2008, 6:21 amwhy deny him a chance to continue his eductaion and have a brighter future since the kid is smart and talented
Why allow “bright and talented” kids the ability to learn how to make the next generation of weapons to kill innocent people?
These are not innocent kids. There is a reason why Israel denied them, but not others, and there is a reason why the US State Department revoked their visas.
They want to study in the US?
FUCK THEM
There are plenty of students in the world who haven’t tried to murder innocent people and who didn’t support terror groups.
Posted by Firouz | August 17, 2008, 9:09 amTo freely bloom – that is my definition of success.
Posted by pail | November 23, 2009, 1:06 pm