“I doubt more than 1 in 100 Muslim women wear hijab here. It’s probably close to the opposite in their home countries…
So if it is really all about choice, why do the same women make different choices, depending on where they live?
-A frequent KABOBfest message board commentator commenting on a conversation sparked by I post I wrote concerning the Bahraini 200 meter olympic competitor (Ruqaya Al-Ghasara), who was fully covered from head to toe for her races.
I bring up this comment to illustrate the still too commonly-held belief that a majority of Arab Muslim women are “forced” either legally or as a result of social pressures and norms to veil. Now, let’s apply this “99 in 100 Muslim women wear the hijab in their home country” formula to a relatable situation.
Of the three Bahraini female athletes competing in the olympics:
Two Bahraini athletes have elected not to wear the veil! Gasp-do you mean that countries and people are more complicated than what we see on the small and silver screens-AND that there is actually a diverse display of modesty and way of dressing??? Of course this is an exceptionally small sample size, but at the very least it should speak to the complexity of veiling, and how inaccurate these perceptions of the Arab and Muslim world are when they box a people in a society’s behavior into one category.
You made a blog post about my comment? I’m flattered
Wasn’t really talking about Bahraini women though! I was talking about the Muslim communities we have here in the LA area!
Just to liven things up a bit… I noticed when I lived in Germany that most (if not all) Turkish women in the area where i was were not only veiled, but were wearing a black full chador looking thing. I’ve never been to Turkey but based on video clips I’ve seen on the news and touristy pics friends have taken, it seems veiling is not all that common in Turkey. Is that a “social status” aspect of the issue? They (in Germany) were mostly guest workers, and presumably not very well off in Turkey right?
Well, where in the world dose religiocity not correlate strongly with socio-economics.
it seems veiling is not all that common in Turkey
Probably because you get banned from work and university for wearing it ! Not to mention its a secular state bordering on being an atheist one which prosecutes Muslims for practicing Islam ….. wait isn’t that why it’s an American Allie ?
Probably because you get banned from work and university for wearing it !So they go to Germany so they can wear their black tents? Interesting. Not to mention its a secular state bordering on being an atheist one which prosecutes Muslims for practicing Islam ….. Unlike those Muslim countries that kill "apostates" and throw people in prison for not practicing Islam "properly", right? Yes, it is too bad that Turkey is not as enlightened as countries such as Saudi Arabia and Iran.wait isn't that why it's an American Allie ?I don't know! Is it? I keep hearing about what a great friend KSA is over here in the US! What involvement does the US have in Turkey, beyond it's membership in NATO? By the way, the US seems to have a lot of allies where people get dead for not being Islamic enough… we could use more allies that don't play that way. I'm all for Turkey being the new best friend forever and all that.
Mmmmmm! I like that first one! Purely out of respect for her rights of course.
the first photo is actually a pretty poor example of maytha's point. "maryam yusif jamal" was born an ethiopian christian, she was granted citizenship by bahrain in 2004 in order to boost their sporting image — and on the condition she change her name to an arabic one.furthermore, and directly to the point of this post, her choice to wear standard track outfits has apparently caused considerable controversy in bahrain, with the bahraini national athletics association at times declaring that she will have to wear more conservative outfits in the future.
Let's take a poll. Be honest, now.1) How many Muslim men reading this think Quran says you should "touch" your wife, and how many think it means you should leave her alone? You know what I'm talking about.2) What percentage of Muslim men in the Arab world do you think beat their wives?Please state where you are from, City, Country and tribal affiliation if you want.
GREAT POST!
Using olympic athletes as an example of “diverse display of modesty and a way of dressing” is not bad just because the sample is small, but because the sample is biased. Their outfits are largely dictated by what they are doing. How would it even be possible for a swimmer to wear a veil? And the runner who opted to do so is nevertheless wearing a tight form-fitting outfit that I doubt would be considered modest on the street.
Come on, maybe there is diversity in the way women dress in muslim countries, but trumping pictures of sportswomen is like using three pictures of policewomen in America as a proof that all women wear uniforms in the west!
Women are routinely pressured to wear the veil in the Mideast and in Mideast communities abroad _ directly by family, friends and school teachers.
They are indirectly pressured as increasing numbers of women wear the hijab, a minority is expected to dress more modestly and eventually don the veil as well.
If you want proof of direct pressure, speak to a sample more random than three Bahraini atheletes.
Proof of indirect pressure? Take a look at any Arab city in the 80s, and the same Arab city 20 years later.
This is hardly about freedom of choice. It’s far more complicated than that and its facicious to imply the veil exists outside of complicated social constraints.
Maryam Jamal doesn’t live in Bahrain.
She lives in Switzerland.
She is Ethiopian and was given Bahraini citizenship because they wanted her for their olympic team. Not making a value judgment here, lots of countries do that.
Anyone who watched track and field distance races at the Olympics could see that both Bahrain and Qatar had athletes (mostly men) on their teams who were clearly not Bahraini or Qatari by birth.
Having said that, I have no opinion as to whether or not these athletes choose to wear or not wear a veil. If they like it, great. If not, great.
Maytha,
Good concept, bad examples. At least one of Bahrain’s other female athletes is not Bahraini at all (and a Christian, no less). Bahrain just makes their adopted Olympians take Muslim names for appearance’s sake (as does Qatar).
Not that I care that Bahrain buys its athletes – after all, their gold medal came from a Moroccan who wouldn’t have competed had he stayed in his home country, as he was kicked off the team after an injury.
Jillian
Jillian,
the concept is that veiling is more complicated than it is portrayed in the West. And-considering EVEN Maryum’s background, I would say the example illustrates my point. it is complicated and diverse. Most Westerners are unaware that MENA countries do have non-Muslim people and communities in their population.
NOn-Muslim women in Saudi Arabia and Iran have to cover their head. Such expectation or enforcement is not the case in other MENA countries. In the last post, commentators complained that Al-Ghasara was probably forced to don the veil. Showing that the two other women, even an ethiopian christian 1500 meter runner, is proof of the diverse relationship women in MENA
countries have with the veil. Is it a paradigmatic example? No. But a tangible and relevant example nonetheless
AND what does it matter where she is from? Michigan-born Kaman played for the German basketball team in the olympics and his only connection is his grandparents. The olympics are replete with stories like these of distant or non-existent connections of athletes to nations they represent.
Maytha,
I guess that, even as a westerner, these things seem painfully obvious to me (I have a hard time relating to my countrymen, sue me). That’s why, to me, it does matter that she’s from Ethiopia – not only does she not have the requirements of a pious Muslim, but she doesn’t have the societal pressure either (but I’m aware of Bahrain’s social dynamics – again, you’re right, westerners on the whole aren’t).
And yes, I also know about the interesting global Olympic dynamics (and am, in fact, writing an article on how globalized the Olympics have become in terms of competitors “playing for other teams” so to speak).
You know, I think I should spend some time in Kansas or something. It’s sad that I get the Middle East more than I do my own Midwest.
-Jillian
PC is just an all around idiot. I lived in Germany, I was born there, my parents were officers in the service.
I spent a lot of time on and off in Turkish areas of Germany and can easily say that Turkish women in Germany wear the scarf A LOT less than they wear it in Turkey.
PC is just so full of cliches and stereotypes one does not know where to begin.
I was in Germany last a couple of years ago. I saw some Turkish women wearing it, but not many, far less than I saw in Turkey when I was there a few years ago.
But it isnt this simple. It depends in Turkey where you are at, in the cities or countryside.
In the West it is my experience that more often than not the men in Muslim families are AGAINST their women wearing the hijab.
Since 9/11 I have known six women who have put their hijab on, all of them did so against the wishes of the male members of their families. This includes Pakistanis, Palestinians and a Saudi.
BTW, the hijab is banned in Germany for some government jobs as well. In Turkey there is not a general ban on hijab, rather it cannot be worn in government buildings. So that means government workers and students cannot wear it when they are at school or at work.
HI Jillian,
I know you are much more keen than the rest of the population-that’s why such dynamics are so obvious to you. But that is far from the case for not even the average joe, but also supposedly well-informed upper-crust American elite. Both groups have wondered why I don’t veil b/c they thought it was forced upon women. I even had one Columbia student say: “You are the first smart woman from that I region that I have ever met. I mean, the others are just so meek and hide behind a veil.”
And I wish you had a chance to peruse some of the writings by New York Private school students who I asked to share their perceptions on Arabs and Muslims for a workshop I did on stereotypes. What an eye opener!
As such, I have developed a strong cynicism about people’s knowledge of that area and the on-the-ground dynamics.
I don’t doubt it exists; I guess I’m just surprised at how much of a bubble I live in that I almost never encounter people like that.
it’s not about religion, it’s about traditions.
both are expendable in my opinion.
i believe that extreme islam is wrong because of women’s human right’s, however, it is their culture, therefore, maybe they should know what to expect but that’s a sad thing isn’t it? and the fact women are seen as less even though every muslim man u ask says the quran says we are all equal however they dont treat them equally so whats that about? extemism needs to be stopped.
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