Quiqui: I heard something in class the other day, and I almost fell out of my seat.
The PLO didn’t have maps throughout the Oslo process.
Is this true?! Whoa. I’m wondering if, then, I can get some guidance on reading material. I’ve never run across this before, but I don’t doubt the prof is right. I keep forgetting to ask her.
Diana: The short answer is: yes. The longer answer is that all maps were ‘security classified’ information by the Israelis that was not allowed to be in the possession of anyone other than security officials. Possession of a map (by a Palestinian) was a criminal offence. While general road maps etc were likely available, the details of where military bases (including some settlements) were not available. This does not excuse Palestinian incompetence (i.e. why not create a fuss about maps) but explains Israel’s control.
Now for an interesting fact: did u know that NOT A SINGLE MAP EXISTS OF EAST JERUSALEM (outside the old city)? This is a remnant of Israeli policy not to clearly define Palestinian areas.
PB: I remember reading somewhere in Ashrawi’s “This Side of Peace,” that for many of the meetings they didn’t have anyone on hand who was 100% fluent in English either.
Fadi: This is precisely why “A critical Fatah conference should be held soon to allow a new generation to take charge of the Palestinian national movement.” Fatah owns the Palestinian national movement, right. The quote is taken from Abbashole’s op-ed in the WSJ today.
Random falafel seller: Who lied to Abbasshole and told him he’s still relevant?
May: Wait-hold up! “Possession of a map by a Palestinian criminal offence”!??!?
is that right? how can that be? How does Israel have the legal
jurisdiction to ban the possession of maps?
Diana: Used to be…West Bank and Gaza Strip were ‘military areas’ and hence no maps were allowed.
(You also couldn’t wear the colours of the Pal flag or carry a flag).
During the negotiations, they would roll out maps and show the Hebrew labelled maps to the Palestinians and then roll them back up and take them away! A friend was once imprisoned 6 months for being suspected of handing over a map of Gaza to Faisal Husseini!
Mohammad: Did this ban get lifted in time for Oslo II and subsequent negotiations?
Diana: Not sure. The Ministry of Planning started in ’94 and it took them years to create a database of maps. I don’t what they used to create their maps or how they did it but I can certainly ask.
Mohammad: Speaking of Oslo incompetence, my favorite will always be the agreement
that settlements have the right to expand but Palestinians towns and villages can’t (am I right about the second part Diana?).
Anyway, this pretty much explains why the PA has never been able to curb
settlement expansion. They agreed to it.
Diana: Not exactly but that’s what happened. Arafat believed Rabin (stupidly) who promised him that they would not build new settlements and would not expand existing ones. He couldn’t (he claims) get it in the Agreements because Rabin’s govt would have collapsed (true) and he wanted to keep Rabin in office. Arafat believed that Rabin would stick to his word. Settlements did expand, though but Arafat always believed it was temporary. There are vague provisions in all agreements that are interpreted to refer to settlements but nothing hard. After Rabin’s assassination, I think Arafat probably let out a huge DOH!
Quiqui: This is so fascinating. THIS IS HUGE!
As Edward Said wrote: “…the censorship of geography, in this most geographical of conflicts… “
Fayyad: As good as Ed Said’s quote… So prophetic in light of this conversation:
Related posts:
- Deja Vu
- Just another war crime
- Death of the two-state solution?
- Not Free of Incompetence
- Time is running out for Peace. I swear.
It’s funny when people who have no power pretend that they do.
Posted by Anonymous | September 19, 2008, 3:14 pmCan all of you please not post any more of your personal conversations with each other because they are not interesting to read for outside people nor do they provide any insight whatsoever.
Posted by yousef | September 19, 2008, 4:00 pmReally? I think they’re great.
Please keep posting.
Posted by Bonty | September 19, 2008, 5:40 pmI really enjoy this blog but this is not an accurate post and also not sure what you are basing this information on. The PA team had maps throughout Oslo, whether they chose to use them or not is a different story. Indeed, during the initial Oslo negotiations they deliberately did not. However, during what is known as the Oslo II negotiations and afterward they absolutely did have them-but again choosing to use the maps is a different story. One of the main cartographers of the negotiating team was Khalil Tufakji who worked for Feisal Husseini in the Orient House. He is well quoted and has published articles in numerous places.
Posted by Sam | September 20, 2008, 12:21 amIt’s a shame that quality content on this site is posted alongside conspiratorial drivel, dragging the vibe of this website down in the process.
It’s also interesting, telling, and ironic how QuiQui blindly believes whatever her teacher says. Gimme a break. When did QuiQui become the Sarah Palin of Kabobfest?
Not to be sexist, but the girls here don’t post the most hard hitting and informative entries.
Posted by Ralph | September 20, 2008, 10:08 amRalph, where exactly is the conspiratorial drivel?
And I posted that, not Quiqui,
Posted by Mohammad | September 20, 2008, 2:47 pmAny credible links that can corroborate this far-fetched conspiracy theory? I’ve read quite a few accounts of Oslo from Palestinians who were there and never once heard of this “We had no maps
” stuff. Please enlighten me.
Posted by callin bs | September 20, 2008, 7:46 pmFirst, Sam (above) completely destroyed the credibility of the Kabobers who claimed to have inside knowledge on the lack of maps.
Second, to say that Palestinians do not intimately know the land, without maps, is to say that the sky does not rise in the east.
Every felahe I ever knew was raised to know every rock, tree, brook, mountain, valley, fork in the road for miles and miles around them, and sometimes much further.
They learned this without looking at maps, but by being raised on the earth. In fact, the system of giving directions stems from this intimate knowledge of the land: turn left at that tree and walk over this mountain… it’s like everything has it’s own name.
Maybe the city arabs on the negotiating team didn’t know what they were talking about, but if they had brought some felahin who lived on the Green Line they wouldn’t need maps, and would be arguing with the Jews over which rock belongs to whom.
Posted by Anonymous | September 22, 2008, 10:42 amI find it baffling that there may not have been any maps at all, but it is very believable that they weren’t really used.
In Jordan up to some point, maps, atlases, globes were not allowed – I found it very weird to spend a couple years in a local school where the geography class atlas was a ‘controlled’ version of I don’t know what – it was the 80s!! Censored geography like Said said. Till not so many years ago, street maps were not available here either – also ‘controlled’. Now GPS use is a challenge and the system is not quite sure how to go about it – so it’s in limbo…. and well, I think we know how that story will eventually go!
This strategy has clearly not been useful to anything except feeding into ignorance. It’s messed up how we don’t learn from history, nor from bad practice that hurts us, over and over.
Instead of nurturing mighty minds and souls, and growing monuments of strength and communities of inspiration who believe in possibility and may make something remarkable for their futures, the systems dim the lights.
Thankfully we now have new lenses and megaphones which finally bypass these archaic systems! Let’s make sure we use them to help us transform out of this ridiculous dark rut!
Posted by Nadine | September 23, 2008, 6:18 am