And it’s clear that Israel isn’t doing that. Although Hamas rocketers are.

There has ben a large amount of evidence that israel has launched indiscriminate attacks, including videos of the massacres at police barracks, mosques and other civilian targets. Hamas has launched indisriminate attacks against civilians as well, but these attacks are not where near as lethal.

Repeating your assertions over and over again does not make them true.

Right back atcha. I cite things. You complain that they’re not believable, but you don’t even cite anything to support your claims. Kind of like Hamas complaining about war crimes.

You “cite” Israeli propaganda from the IDF, which keeps changing its story and which has made deranged claims that Hamas booby trapped the school and filled it with explosives, and it was the booby traps, not the attacks which they admitted launching, that killed the people there. Sorry, but Israel’s bullshit doesn’t pass the smell test.

You made the positive claim that Hamas was using the school for military purposes: “Actually, it would be illegal to target such a compound only if it were not being used for military purposes. That’s why Hamas is wrong for using it that way.” You have provided no proof to back your assertion and you know it. Just because you and the IDF make the positive claim Hamas was using the school to fire motars doesn’t make it so. Since you are making the positive claim that Hamas used the school grounds to fire mortars, the burden of proof is on you to prove the claim, not me. I have no burden to prove that Hamas wasn’t firing mortars from the school, because I did not make that claim. I simply stated the indsisputable fact that there is no evidence they did so, and in the absence of evidence, no reason to believe that israel is telling the truth particularly as it has a pattern of launching disproportionate attacks like these against UN targets.

I also pointed out that even if Israel is telling the truth, which is certainly possible, their attack was still indiscrimiminate and a war crime, and I cited Amnesty International’s discussion of disproportionate attacks to support my argument.

So don’t feed me this bullshit I am not supporting my claims. I have given my claims all the support they need. You have not.

Indeed, the Israeli military has admitted that there was no mortar fire coming from the school as originally claimed:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1054009.html

So what does that say about all the positive claims that israel has made up to this point talking of “booby traps,” and “explosives caches” and all the rest? These claims were not misinterpretations of available evidence, which anyone could have made, but flat out lies.

unless the military value of doing so greatly exceeded the damage done to the civilians present. I can’t think of a single instance where that was the case

It’s a judgment call, and your judgment is not what matters.

Neither is yours, Sparky.

Any explanation for the secondary explosions when such a site is hit?

I tend to agree that the school was a bad call, but I’ll also note that the school was not directly hit.

And it’s clear that Israel isn’t doing that. Although Hamas rocketers are.

Repeating your assertions over and over again does not make them true.

Right back atcha. I cite things. You complain that they’re not believable, but you don’t even cite anything to support your claims. Kind of like Hamas complaining about war crimes.

unless the military value of doing so greatly exceeded the damage done to the civilians present. I can’t think of a single instance where that was the case

It’s a judgment call, and your judgment is not what matters.

Aside from their being no evidence that Hamas is doing this but Israel’s say so, civilian structures can be a legitimate target if they are being put to a military use, but only subject to the provisions I’ve already cited. You can’t just attack indiscriminately every military target with callous disregard to the the civilians who may be present.

Just because Israel claims there is a Hamas militant behind every rock doesn’t make it so.

And just because you dismiss it doesn’t mean it’s not so. Because it’s true.

Repeating your assertions over and over again does not make them true. Quoting the IDF’s often ludicrous and far fetched scenarios does not make it so, either. Where is the evidence, from a credible source, that this is happening? If you claim something is true, it is your duty to prove it, not mine to disprove it.

Firing weapons from a civilian area is not a war crime so long as reasonable precaution has been taken to ensure the safety of civilians in the area, usually by evacuating them.

Have you seen any evidence that Hamas takes those steps? Or do you only need evidence against Hamas/for Israel? And if Hamas has taken those steps, isn’t it ok for IDF to bomb them?

It is permissible for the IDF to attack Hamas in civilian areas, provided the IDF has ensured that the potential damage to civilians will not exceed the military value of the attack. The IDF frequently claims the presence of human shields whenever they kill masses of civilians attempting to blame the victims, or Hamas, for their own criminal behavior. But if Israel was really aware that Hamas was actually using human shields, they would then have a duty to refrain from attacking that target unless the military value of doing so greatly exceeded the damage done to the civilians present. I can’t think of a single instance where that was the case, and was certainly not the case in the attack against the UN school.

You misinterpreted the statement. Having civilians who are armed is not what he meant by “dispersing weapons among the civilian population.”

What he meant was using homes as weapons caches for the military. Basically, putting civilian structures to military use makes them legitimate targets.

Just because Israel claims there is a Hamas militant behind every rock doesn’t make it so.

And just because you dismiss it doesn’t mean it’s not so. Because it’s true.

Firing weapons from a civilian area is not a war crime so long as reasonable precaution has been taken to ensure the safety of civilians in the area, usually by evacuating them.

Have you seen any evidence that Hamas takes those steps? Or do you only need evidence against Hamas/for Israel? And if Hamas has taken those steps, isn’t it ok for IDF to bomb them?

Does this seem like evidence?

Keep it up, everyone. The more people speak out, the more the world will know of Israel’s vast capability to act in inhumane ways.

Then you misunderstand the term. Embedding a military force within a civilian population is a war crime. Dispersing weapons amongst a civilian population is a war crime.

Israel has embedded its military bases within civilian areas and many of its “civilians” are armed to the teeth. This is only a “war crime” if it deliberately puts civilians in harms way or fails to take reasonable precautions for their safety. The locating of police stations, mosques, universities and hospitals within civilian areas is not a war crime, particularly as they are civilian installations. not military. Just because Israel claims there is a Hamas militant behind every rock doesn’t make it so.

Firing weapons from within civilian areas is a war crime. Not identifying yourself as a combatant is a war crime. Etc. Etc. Etc.

Firing weapons from a civilian area is not a war crime so long as reasonable precaution has been taken to ensure the safety of civilians in the area, usually by evacuating them. Every picture I have ever seen of Hamas militants shows them in black tops with combat fatigue bottoms. I see no evidence they are fighting in civilian clothes.

I URGE you to take Israel to the Hague. They will be cleared so fast your head will spin. I’ve studied international law for three years. Everything Israel has done is in complete compliance – in fact above the standards imposed by Geneva.

Lol. Graduated in the bottom half of class, did you? Israel has more UN resolutions lodged against it than any other nation on the planet. Ethnic cleansing, deliberate targeting of civilians, house demolitions, land confiscations, planting of settlers on conquered territory, use of cluster bombs in civilian areas, collective punishment, mass starvation, full scale economic blockade not sanctioned by the UN, wars of aggression and conquest, etc, etc, etc.

Above the standards of the Geneva Convention? Put down the crack pipe, pal.

I think you’ve forgotten when Israel makes phone calls for the residents of a home to clear it, because it is about to be bombed, Hamas often gathers mothers and their babies on the rooftops, who wave at the Israeli drones. This is the traditional definition of human shields.

No it isn’t, it is passive resistance, unless those people were forced onto the roofs by someone else. There is no evidence Hamas forced anyone to gather on the rooftops to dissuade Israeli attacks. None. If people do this of their own volition, it is foolhardy, but they have a right to passive resistance.

As for Israel’s phone calls, they make them randomly and call huge numbers of people, rendering them ineffective as a warning system but very effective as a way of spreading panic, while still allowing Israel to falsely claim it is taking measures to protect civilians.

Compounding the atmosphere of fear resulting from the Israeli bombardments, Israeli forces have been sending seemingly random telephone messages to many inhabitants of Gaza telling them to leave their homes because of imminent air strikes against their houses. Such messages have been received by residents of multi-storey apartment building, causing panic not only for those who received the calls but for all their neighbours. Such practice was widely used by Israeli forces both in Gaza and in Lebanon in 2006, but has not been reported since. The threatening calls seem to aim to spread fear among the civilian population, as in most cases no air strikes were carried out against the buildings. If this is the purpose, rather than to give effective warning, this practice violates international law and must end immediately.

http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/news/end-unlawful-attacks-and-meet-gazas-emergency-needs-20081229

And to answer your question directly, if Hamas was launching mortars from the grounds of the UN school, (that’s in itself a war crime, but not my point), they then are a legitimate target for retaliation. It doesn’t matter if they are surrounded by a hundred innocent children and one tank shell will kill everyone.

This is patently false for the reasons I’ve already mentioned of proportionality and the duty to protect civilians. A mortar is not so deadly a weapon as to justify the slaughter of hundreds of civilians to prevent its use.

I’ve been to Israel. Half the population walks around with government issued weapons. There are military bases smack dab in the middle of Tel Aviv. If Hamas is guilty of this then so is Israel on a far larger scale.

“I URGE you to take Israel to the Hague. They will be cleared so fast your head will spin.”

No, they wont.

“I’ve studied international law for three years.”

No, you haven’t.

“Everything Israel has done is in complete compliance – in fact above the standards imposed by Geneva.”

Israel violates the Geneva convention on a daily basis.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3593718.stm

“And to answer your question directly, if Hamas was launching mortars from the grounds of the UN school, (that’s in itself a war crime, but not my point), they then are a legitimate target for retaliation. It doesn’t matter if they are surrounded by a hundred innocent children and one tank shell will kill everyone.”

First of all, there is no evidence of mortars being fired from the school (and there probably never will be because Israel has barred foreign journalists from entering the strip). In fact a good chunk of the news we have on Israeli military activity comes from Israels YouTube propaganda site.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7809371.stm

2nd of all, if a mortar came from the school at a certain point in time, it does not give Israel the right to destroy a school later on in time. I’m quite sure that Israel is aware of the fact that mortar teams probably relocate after firing.

The destruction of the school is a blatant war crime. The UN gave Israel the coordinates of the school, the civilians inside the school had fled their homes because Israel had warned them “robocop” style that their homes were subject to bombardment. This is on top of the fact that Israel has decided to drop thousands of 2 ton bombs on the most densely populated area in the world, strafe it with machine gun fire, shell it with artillery, and bombard it from the sea. This does not even include the ground invasion. Nor does it include the illegal blockade on the territory.

You can bang your head against your computer all day but it does not change the fact that Israel is committing war crimes on an almost hourly basis. Just admit Israel fukd up, and stop blaming the victim for this massacre.

Then you misunderstand the term. Embedding a military force within a civilian population is a war crime. Dispersing weapons amongst a civilian population is a war crime. Boobytrapping civilian areas is a war crime. Firing weapons from within civilian areas is a war crime. Not identifying yourself as a combatant is a war crime. Etc. Etc. Etc.

I URGE you to take Israel to the Hague. They will be cleared so fast your head will spin. I’ve studied international law for three years. Everything Israel has done is in complete compliance – in fact above the standards imposed by Geneva.

I think you’ve forgotten when Israel makes phone calls for the residents of a home to clear it, because it is about to be bombed, Hamas often gathers mothers and their babies on the rooftops, who wave at the Israeli drones. This is the traditional definition of human shields.

And to answer your question directly, if Hamas was launching mortars from the grounds of the UN school, (that’s in itself a war crime, but not my point), they then are a legitimate target for retaliation. It doesn’t matter if they are surrounded by a hundred innocent children and one tank shell will kill everyone.

The laws of war were created to PREVENT exactly this kind of abuse of a civilian population by a military force.