Okay, so the title is in jest, but really, I loved the theatrics of the Turkish prime minister, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, at the World Economic Forum in Davos. He stormed out of a panel with Shimon Peres after debating the rights and wrongs of Israel’s offensive in the Gaza Strip.
In a show of protest, that surely inspired much Turkish delight (yum), he walked out of the televised debate after the moderator, the Post’s David Ignatius, cut off his rebuttal to the Israeli president’s apologetics.
Before leaving, Erdogan told Shimon Peres: “You are killing people.”
The full debate is here:
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cR4zRbPy2kY]
For just the fun theatrics:
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrbQsHkVQ_4]
Upon his arrival, crowds welcomed the Turkish Prime Minister as a hero, however, some talking heads have been critical of his willingness to rub the US-Israel axis and appear sympathetic to Hamas.
Despite the obvious long-time similarities between Turkish nationalism and Zionism — the reinvention of a modernist nation based on narrow identity at the expense of minorities, and the willingness to enforce the state identity through violence and legal discrimination — the AK party’s succession has so far given Turkish politics a new interesting dynamic, one that allows for Turkish “Easternness,” marked by moderate Islam, in its politics. This not to say that Kemalism and Zionism are the same, just similar in some ways.
This act by Erdogan will not remake Turkish identity or foreign policy, but it is a stunning show of leadership and political theater that challenges the Israeli narrative. I hope it does not cost him politically. Any pressure from Turkey will surely shake up American eyes, even if the gap between the two widened over the Iraq war. This is especially notable given Turkey’s recent role as a broker on the Syria track — which is declared dead recently.
Between this, Iran, Venezuela, Qatar and Mauritania, there is finally some inkling of state-level shifts against Israel. More of this kind of pressure, including popular pushes for boycott, divestment and sanctions, is needed to whip Israel back into shape.
That a former Nobel Peace Prize winner thinks killing 1300 Palestinians, 86% of whom were civilians, and injuring thousands more is just is testament of Israel’s lunacy.
[Tarboush Tip: Zeynep]
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- More Bloodshed in Israel-Palestine
- Al-Jazeera, English: Nowhere to Run in Gaza
- First Poll on US Opinion on Gaza: Democratic Politicians Ignore Public Opinion
Telling people what they want to hear while your country engages in major arms trade and sends water to Israel is not courageous. I expect in six months it’ll probably be business as usual, but I hope I’m wrong.
Posted by nadia | January 30, 2009, 8:07 amYou’re not wrong, nadia. The Turks spent $300 million on Israeli military hardware just last week. We need to remember what Turkey is, a managed democracy. The military is the ultimate reservoir of power in Turkey, and it is absolutely committed to the Israeli relationship.
Erdogan and AK are being given some theatrical room to win over the Arab, as Turkey comes out of 80 years of weakness and instability and asserts itself in the region.
Just as a sidenote, Will, remember why Turkey refused to participate in the Iraq invasion. It was not because it didn’t support deposing Saddam, but because it was afraid the Kurds would create their own nation in northern Iraq and develop state-level resources to fight the Turks.
I’m not sure how you can even compare Israel and Turkey… the Turks have killed tens of thousands of Kurds. The PKK was never as violent as Palestinian terrorist factions. They banned the Kurdish language from newspapers and airwaves and suppressed the Kurdish narrative by denying even basic education to that minority.
Compare this to Israel’s laissez faire approach to the Palis until the First Intifada, after which came Oslo and an offer of statehood. Can you imagine the Turks doing an Oslo with the PKK?
The PKK killed a couple of soldiers in Turkey about a year ago, and how did Turkey respond? 40,000 troops crossed into Iraq and killed G-d knows how many people. No one cared because there is no Kurdish lobby.
Interestingly, Israel has excellent relations with Turkey AND the Kurds. Maybe it should offer mediation and tell Erdogan he is killing people.
Posted by Anonymous | January 30, 2009, 9:02 amI am truly at a loss of words. You seriously believe that 40 thousand soldiers crossed over to Iraq because ''PKK killed a couple of soldiers''? There has been attacks and ambushes towards soldiers for months and the government had to do something about this. There were news (and there still are) soldiers getting killed on a daily basis and the govt. had no choice but to respond.
''PKK was never as violent as Palestinian terrorist factions'' Seriously? Tens and thousands lost their lives in suicide bombings, ambushes or bombs left in garbage cans in crowded areas. PKK is not composed of children who throw rocks at fully armored soldiers.
You claim that Turkey was ''denying even basic education to that minority'' when it was the PKK terrorists that attacked teachers and doctors that were sent to that area. Yes, it was their thing for a while. They were just targeting doctors and teachers, because they cared about their brethren so much!!!
We do not confine Kurds in a tiny area, deny them the freedom of movement, deny them the right to get decent food or medical care. Kurds are citizens of Turkey. They can get an education wherever they want, move to whatever city they want and have full rights as other Turkish citizens. Oh, we even had a president of Kurdish background. You see an Arab-Israeli getting elected to that office in Israel anytime soon?
Posted by ikke | September 27, 2009, 5:03 pmState level shifts against Israel?
Israel is today supported by more nations than ever. Of the countries you are discussing, “Iran, Venezuela” are fighting Israel to fight the Americans. Once the American question is settled they will love the Israelis. “Qatar and Mauritania”? Kicking out out the Israeli economic delegation? Get real. The fact that they were there in the first place is a demonstration of how accepted Israel has become, even in the region.
Let’s flip the situation. Which states are today supporting the Palestinians? Really supporting them, not using them as proxies for their own interests. Name one.
Gaza is under complete international isolation, which is supported by the Arabs. The West Bank is under control of a strongman, which is supported by the Arabs.
The Arabs are relying on Israel to threaten the Iranian nuke program…
Your theory is outlandish. The Palestinians are truly alone in the world.
Posted by Anonymous | January 30, 2009, 9:13 amChange and possible realignment happening in Turkey.
Posted by Gene | January 30, 2009, 10:21 am“Gaza is under complete international isolation, which is supported by the Arabs. The West Bank is under control of a strongman, which is supported by the Arabs.
The Arabs are relying on Israel to threaten the Iranian nuke program…”
A few things….you refer to “Arabs” as if they are a homogeneous group. As the last century of history has shown us, clearly not.
Arabs support the isolation of Gaza, yea thats proven by the massive outrage all over the Arab world including protests against Egypt and Israel all over the Arab world. Not to mention the wider world, Europe, Asia, South America and the US.
Relying on Israel to deter Iran.
1)Maybe Egypt and Saudi Arabia
2) Those two nation’s leaders are chachy little collaborators with the US. Which makes them not really all that powerful in the political eyes of the world. So those two nations don’t represent the whole of the Arab world. Which brings me back to the issue of homogeneity.
It’s probably in poor taste to respond to anonymous, certain things just chap my ass.
Posted by mehmet | January 30, 2009, 10:40 am“it is a stunning show of leadership and political theater that challenges the Israeli narrative.”
Wrong. Erdogan didn’t challenge the Israeli narrative, he avoided it. Peres pointed out that if Hamas has shot its rockets at Istanbul, Turkey would have done just what Israel did. After the moderator cut off his digressive response, what could Erdogan do, other than walk out? If he had disagreed with Peres, he would be inviting Turkey’s enemies (Kurds) to attack. If he had agreed with Peres, he would be accused of awarding moral authority to Israel – something that is treated by many as a crime in and of itself.
For engaging in such sophistry, skipping the key moral issues in favor of waving the red herring of dignity due Turkey’s leader, Erdogan was hailed as a hero by his countrymen.
Posted by Solomon2 | January 30, 2009, 11:08 amWow, Peres is such an asset for Israel. I thought he was an old fool! I watched that video. About fifteen minutes into his speech, he had complete dominance of that hall.
The Israelis are such poor communicators. It’s absolutely true; who remembers that just three years ago there WAS no blockade of Gaza, and hundreds of millions were spent and donated by Israel, Arab nations, the EU and US to help develop Gaza’s economy.
This was just THREE YEARS AGO! We have such short memories. Anyway, Peres is brilliant.
Posted by Anonymous | January 30, 2009, 11:17 amyes, we palestinians are alone and are powerless more or less
but thats going to change inshallah
as long as there is injustice there will be resistance, even if Hamas was oblietrated…resistance is not a group…its a way of thinking and action.
thus it can never die whereever there is injustice.
and we palestinians should be working on that.
Posted by yasse | January 30, 2009, 11:22 amAre the hosts of this site purposefully blinding themselves? Go to youtube and watch what happened. Peres absolutely destroyed the turkish fuck. It was truly mindblowing – an absolute verbal nuke. The turkfuck was left babbling like a baby.
Posted by Not Blind | January 30, 2009, 11:22 amThis is a strategic summary of Turkish actions in Kurdistan about one year ago.
If you look at the goals and objectives, they could have been lifted straight from the IDF’s handbook.
Here’s an article that everyone should read and compare it to the recent war in Gaza. The similarities are incredible, despite northern Iraq being a fairly barren area devoid of concentrated populations.
At the very bottom they give some background:
The PKK wants autonomy for the predominantly Kurdish southeastern Turkey, and rebels have carried out attacks in Turkey from bases in Kurdish Iraq. The conflict started in 1984 and has resulted in the deaths of as many as 40,000 people.
I wonder how many of those are Kurds. 99%?
Kurdish demands have run the spectrum from self-rule to more-limited rights, like increased freedom to educate and broadcast in their language.
The Turkish government granted some cultural rights to Kurds as part of its bid to join the European Union. But many Kurds, who make up 20 percent of Turkey’s population of 75 million, chafe under state controls on freedom of expression.
Now, let’s compare that to Israel, whose 20% Arab minority proudly denounces the Jewish state in the Parliament!
And then Erdogan tells Peres about killing children?
Arabs always choose strange bedfellows. Chavez. Ahmadinejad. Erdogan. You are so desperate for any acceptance, from anyone.
Posted by Anonymous | January 30, 2009, 12:34 pmAnd then Erdogan tells Peres about killing children?
Posted by Anonymous | January 30, 2009, 1:43 pmwe are discussing Gaza here.
his stance is great. his policies might be flawed, hell all what you said about him might be right.
but we are praising his stance on Gaza which despite everything is better that the palestinians ever got when it comes to denouncing israeli UGLY DISGUSTING crimes.
so basically, dont chitchat me about other stuff.
its just his stance on GAZA that counts here. not his stances on other deals.
if you wanna discuss his other flawed policies, go to another post. and dont talk to me about hypocrisy, Shimon peres(because of their strategic alliance with Turkey) does not admit the armenian genocide. so what should that make him?
Posted by Anonymous | January 30, 2009, 3:12 pmTalk is cheap.
Actions speak louder: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1060116.html
As of 2007 Turkey had bought over $2 Billion in weapons from Israel and granted overflight rights to Israeli fighter jets.
Israel’s total government budget for 2007 was $57 billion.
Put your money where your mouth is Mr. Erdogan. You don’t have to look far – just a little to the East: Iran.
Posted by Anonymous | January 30, 2009, 4:20 pmThe political implications, if Erdogan continues his protest of Israeli antics will be that the Israeli lobby will decide to go support the Armenian lobby after all.
But I applaud Erdogan anyway, for having the courage to speak out.
Just go watch the whole damned thing. Someone should have thrown a shoe at Peres before Erdogan tried to respond.
Posted by ebru | January 30, 2009, 4:27 pmthe courage to speak out? what a joke.
all he was doing was:
a) giving himself the political space for further political/military/financial ties with israel;
b) masking his own atrocities against kurdish (muslim!) civilians;
c) driving up popular support at home for his own upcoming elections; and
d) fooling dupes like Will.
Will really hates Muslims. First it was the Darfur Muslims who, despite having over 200,000 innocent civilians killed, and who knows how many women raped, were somehow not victims of genocide – it was just the Zionists saying so to deflect from their own crimes.
Now Will hates innocent Kurdish civilians.
A “stunning show of leadership”?
Wow.
So sad – you can’t even tell when you’re being used.
Posted by Kurd | January 30, 2009, 5:29 pmYet again, Muslim leaders use Palestinian suffering as a device for their own popularity, and it works like a charm. Wonderful to see Kabob posters eat it up so eagerly. You presume to be intelligent, informed and liberal. You could have used this opportunity to write about how the horrors the Turks did and still do to the Kurds can put the Israelis to shame. Why didn’t you?
Oh, I forgot. You couldn’t care less. You care nothing about atrocities done by Muslims to Muslims in Turkey, in Iran, in Sudan or in Iraq.
Posted by Anonymous | January 31, 2009, 6:30 amMakes for great theatrics, but that’s it. Turkey is a close ally of Israel regardless. My sense is this is more about local politics in Turkey.
Posted by Sean | January 31, 2009, 11:11 amThis makes me wonder, if the occupiers of Palestine were Muslim, would the wider Islamic world care in the least? If the Palestinians and Kurds traded places, would the Pals disappear from the radar and the Kurds would become the new recruitment poster child of radical Islam? Is the wider Islamic world’s obsession with Palestine based more on religious intolerance than any sort of genuine concern?
Turkey’s record with the Kurds and the Armenians is far worse than what has happened to the Palestinians. I’m sorry, but you’re just out of your depth here. I’m not advocating any of the things that have happened to the Palestinians, but you should understand that Erdogan’s act was incredibly hypocritical and praising it shows either a deep fundamental misunderstanding of Turkey or something more disturbing.
Posted by Green Flash | February 1, 2009, 1:36 amWrong. Erdogan didn’t challenge the Israeli narrative, he avoided it. Peres pointed out that if Hamas has shot its rockets at Istanbul, Turkey would have done just what Israel did.
He was being nice. If Hamas had fired rockets at Istanbul, there wouldn’t be any living Palestinians in Gaza, right now. At least, that is what Turkey’s history tells us that Turkey’s response would have been.
More than a bit absurd for a real and unapologetic genocider to be pointing fingers at Israel about anything at all.
Posted by programmer craig | February 1, 2009, 7:26 amSeriously! This is from the leader of a country that can’t admit it murdered 1-2 million Armenians 100 years ago!
Ok, so you can’t admit it in the first generation – fine. But 100 years later?! That’s like America saying there was no slavery, that black people were plantation volunteers.
Posted by Anonymous | February 1, 2009, 8:01 amI guess the only ones happy with you Erdogan, are the Gazans.
Posted by Anonymous | February 1, 2009, 8:11 amThe Turks are scrambling to contain the damage from Erdogan’s outburst.
Such theatrics are fine for Chavez and Castro, but we’re talking about a prospective member state of the EU, and a founding member of NATO. Erdogan was performing for al Jazeera. We’re about to see how that strategy pays off for Turkey.
Posted by Anonymous | February 1, 2009, 8:56 amHow come no ones talking about Gaza out here? Which Armenian or Kurd did Erdogan kill? A massacre of this scale, Peres still defending it, and were supposed to go on with the so called ‘diplomacy’?
Somebody had to come out and do the ‘theatrics’ as you call it. It’s a pity its not the Arabs who care for theatre.
Posted by ali | February 1, 2009, 9:36 amAli,
We don’t know how many Kurds have been killed by the Turks in the last month, or in the last year, because Turkey isn’t overflowing with western reporters and human rights groups the way Israel is, and there is no Kurdish international lobby, the way the Palestinians have.
What we do know is that Turkish troops are continually operating in Kurdish areas, both in Turkey and Iraq, and that support for the PKK among the Kurds is growing as a response.
The fact that you don’t even know this only confirms that al Jazeera doesn’t care about murder of Muslims, just the war against the Jews.
Posted by Anonymous | February 1, 2009, 10:10 amSupposedly there is a blockade of Gaza, starvation in Gaza, open air prison in Gaza, complete poverty in Gaza…
but someone forgot to tell these people
Posted by Anonymous | February 2, 2009, 7:33 amIf you put it as the a high point in the world wide "simply human" protest against the Israeli GENOCIDE of Gaza (harvesting political gains for the VICTIMS out of that is the challenge)….Palstinians can lead with the right unity & qualified team (think Ashrawi & alike)
Posted by riskability | February 2, 2009, 9:16 am“”
his stance is great. his policies might be flawed, hell all what you said about him might be right.
but we are praising his stance on Gaza which despite everything is better that the palestinians ever got when it comes to denouncing israeli UGLY DISGUSTING crimes.
so basically, dont chitchat me about other stuff.”"
Congratulations, you’re now on the EXACT SAME LEVEL AS THE ISRAELIS.
A state founded with genocide as part of its claim to moral legitimacy (Israel) has embraced a state that refuses to acknowledge the genocide of the Armenians its people committed (Turkey), because it’s Turkey’s “stances” they care about, because they’ve got few friends and can’t afford to be picky.
Congratulations.
YOU ARE ISRAEL RIGHT NOW.
Posted by Joe | February 5, 2009, 12:25 pm