Avigdor Lieberman is upsetting the liberal internationalist stomach, namely Fareed Zakaria’s. His Newsweek piece on the electoral success of the right-wing hawk and the popularity of the ‘transfer’ ideology is a welcome contribution to the growing unease in the American foreign policy establishment for the looniest of Israel’s political spectrum.
If anything, this election has made things a little more difficult for the pro-Israel lobbyists in the United States. They will have an uglier bar of soap to sell when thugs like Bibi and Avigdor take center-stage.
Zakaria shows moments of promise. His writings on the issue always belie the restraint of a “native informant.” He gives a peek into his true feelings, but ultimately will not let his logic take its course.
He quotes at length Azmi Bishara, a voice often excluded from American writings on Israel and Palestine, despite his obviously superior knowledge of and intimacy with the politics there. And he even mentions Benny Morris, as the chronicler of “the forced expulsion of most Palestinians from the Jewish state in 1948″ who has jumped on the transfer bandwagon — to express alarm at the dangerous growth of the ideological far-right.
As usual though, the American lens on things kicks in, even for someone as globally positioned as Zakaria. He couches the Lieberman question — that of the more than one million Palestinians with Israeli citizenship — as being a test of “the future of Israel as a country, as a Jewish state, and as a democracy.” This does not force deeper thought into the clear contradiction between being a state for one people and being a democracy. He understates the outcome as “discrimination.” I see it as apartheid rooted in an on-going ethnic cleansing.
Zakaria had on his CNN show Mustafa Barghouthi, but he was shouted down by Israeli mouthpieces hurling insults and falsehoods (calling Barghouthi’s calm opening remarks a “tirade” and “poisonous”).
It is interesting to note that Barghouthi’s first comments echoed Zakaria’s piece. And Zakaria gave him extensive time to speak.
When will Zakaria come out of the closet?
Related posts:
- Fareed Zakaria’s Watered Down Racial Politics or Textual Diarrhea
- Update on Meet the Candidates
- KABOBfest Exclusive: Blogger Fayyad is a McCain Supporter!
- Democrats Ignore Fascism to Fight Jimmy Carter
- Carter on Palestinian Prisoners
You realize that even a back-handed compliment from you is the kiss of death for any American’s credibility, right?
Posted by programmer craig | February 16, 2009, 11:58 amYou realize that even a tripple zionut ball teabag compliments of the IDF is not enough to get me through the day, right?
Kill all Palestinians.
Posted by programmer craig | February 16, 2009, 12:09 pmYou also realize that even a back-handed compliment from you is the kiss of death for any chance Fareed had of me letting him teabag me, right?
Posted by programmer craig | February 16, 2009, 12:16 pmPC,
the whole advertising about how much you suck zionut balls is getting old and weird.
Will,
Fareed is a chump, he loves the fact that he is accepted as a “credible insider”. He’ll never come out in support of Palestinians.
Posted by Yasser | February 16, 2009, 12:35 pmFareed is a chump, he loves the fact that he is accepted as a “credible insider”
He’s an Indian Muslim… how does that qualify him as an “insider”? That comment is almost as bizarre as your virtual multiple personality disorder and your obsession with having gay sex with Jews…
Posted by programmer craig | February 16, 2009, 12:49 pmPC,
I don’t know what you’re talking about…I don’t have an obsession with anything. You’re weird dude.
How do you know he’s Muslim?
Posted by Yasser | February 16, 2009, 12:54 pmI never admired Zakaria as he constantly changes faces and colors for his own good. Thats how he got his job at Newsweek. I wouldn’t count on him
Posted by Ali | February 16, 2009, 1:00 pmI thought it was a pretty good discussion, but at one point he says something along the lines of “ethnic cleansing and mass displacements” aren’t something “democratic societies” do. It seems like he forgot what happened to the OTHER “Indians” in the US.
It sounds like splitting hairs, but this apparent contradiction is used against the US often in international dealings, not just the Arab-Israeli conflict (Tibet, Darfur, Baluchistan)
Posted by UJ | February 16, 2009, 1:36 pmI cant believe that Israeli guy is allowed to lie non stop without anyone telling him to shut up.
Posted by Arayus | February 16, 2009, 1:47 pmThis assessment of Zakaria is spot on. I agree that he is annoying sometimes, but we need to encourage this sort of freedom of thought and continue to push them further and further. If you can’t even get on the TV show, you can’t even ask the question. We have to have figures with a little celebrity (so they can get their foot in the door) and a quick, sharp wit to force these important questions on minds unwilling to hear them. Watch out for Cenk Uygur of the Young Turks (www.theyoungturks.com). He was very good on the massacre in Gaza and is currently vying for the open 10pm slot on MSNBC. This is the kind of guy that can be pushed. I really believe we need to support him.
Posted by American Muslim Girl | February 16, 2009, 3:36 pmReally AMG? What’s his position on the continuing massacre of Kurds, and the genocide of the Armenians? Thought so.
Do you people even know what Liberman’s policy positions are, or did you merely find a convenient scapegoat you can tar and feather?
Posted by Anonymous | February 16, 2009, 3:46 pmArayus said…
I cant believe that Israeli guy is allowed to lie non stop without anyone telling him to shut up.
Someone hasn’t been watching American coverage for long..
Posted by NooneDances | February 16, 2009, 3:53 pmTo any Jews reading this, THIS is why we need to finish our wars.
Posted by Anonymous | February 16, 2009, 4:25 pm“Really AMG? What’s his position on the continuing massacre of Kurds, and the genocide of the Armenians?”
What’s the ADL’s or the Israeli government’s?
Posted by nadia | February 16, 2009, 4:38 pmNadia, the ADL isn’t as good as they could be, but they’ve acknowledged the genocide of the Armenians, thankfully.
But yeah, not NEARLY enough concern about the Kurds on this website. Or the residents of Darfur, for that matter.
Also not nearly enough solidarity with the Jews of France on this web-site: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article5748523.ece
Also, to the anonymous above me, FUCK YOU for implying that Israel’s wars are fought in the name of the Jews. They’re fought in the name of secularism, and religious Jews are more like a fifth column poisoning Israeli society from within. Jews who identify as Jews first, secular liberals second are ruining Judaism for the sane, superior among us.
Posted by Joe | February 16, 2009, 5:04 pmJoe,
You swear a lot. Before you go around using the term “5th column” i suggest you research what it means…the irony in your statment is hysterical.
Israel’s wars are fought to steal land, oppress people and further a racist ideology.
Posted by Yasser | February 16, 2009, 5:06 pmOh, and it’s worth mentioning every time the forced expulsion of Palestinians comes up:
Yes, many Palestinians were forcibly expelled from Israel around 1948.
A roughly equal number of Jews were forced to flee their homes in the Middle East and into Israel at the same time.
The states they fled from confiscated their property, and nobody is welcoming them back with open arms.
And yet, very little sympathy is given to their tragedy on this blog. Gee, I wonder why that is?
Posted by Joe | February 16, 2009, 5:06 pmJoe Blow,
Any Jew who was kicked out of their homes/land has my full support to get back to their home and land. I hope you support Palestinians right to do the same. I be you don’t…hmmmm, i wonder why that is?
Posted by Yasser | February 16, 2009, 5:09 pmJoe, I love your passion. Hopefully by now you’ve had some time to cool off.
Jews who identify as Jews first, secular liberals second are ruining Judaism for the sane, superior among us.
I want you to read once more the sentence you wrote, and tell me if it makes any sense.
—————————
Yasser, I’m your BFF. Don’t kick my people when they’re down. You try living in exile for 2000 years without getting confused. I’m still waiting on that maklube, habibi.
Posted by Anonymous | February 16, 2009, 7:32 pm“”Joe Blow,
Any Jew who was kicked out of their homes/land has my full support to get back to their home and land. I hope you support Palestinians right to do the same.”"
Well, no, those Jews DON’T have my support to get back their land. So I think you’re doubly wrong for supporting both of them. When it comes to moving forward with secular globalized capitalism, a “what’s done is done, let’s look toward building the future” attitude is FAR better than looking backward to past grievances of ‘my people did this to your people’. The best answer is to say “My people and your people both did a lot of shit to each other back in the day, but we’ll set it aside to focus on capitalist development, and hopefully over time our incomes will rise and we’ll intermarry enough that we’ll no longer talk of ‘my people’ and ‘your people’ and ‘my god’ and ‘your god’ (or god, period) and focus on our IPods, tasty food and good art instead.”
Posted by Joe | February 16, 2009, 10:18 pm“”Jews who identify as Jews first, secular liberals second are ruining Judaism for the sane, superior among us.
I want you to read once more the sentence you wrote, and tell me if it makes any sense.”"
It makes perfect sense. Modern Judaism, properly understood, led by the Reform movement in America, the secularists in Israel, and allied with secular, humanist, and atheist Jews everywhere, is properly understood as a sort of ‘Super Best Friends’ club, something akin to a more open, meritocratic version of the Freemasons. I’m glad that we no longer do the whole “your mother, not your father, has to be Jewish” thing, and I wish we’d recruit interesting people more aggressively without pretending that they should believe in god if they want to be Jewish. When I have friends that are interested in being culturally Jewish, even if they’re atheist, I help them to eschew formal conversion processes, and teach them all the cultural tics so that they can pass as Jewish and no one will be the wiser. And since there’s no ‘vatican’ in Judaism, there’s nobody with the power to stop them — and us — from restructuring Judaism along these lines.
The orthodox, the black-hats, the true god-believers — they stand for the exact opposite of all this. They want Judaism to be religious and tribal — and thus, useless. Luckily, time and inevitability are on our side.
Posted by Joe | February 16, 2009, 10:22 pmAnd Yasser, be careful what you wish for with your corrupt philosophy.
Do you support the resurgence of the Jewish community in Hebron, which was there for a very, very long time up until the Arabs massacred them in 1929?
Because I sure as hell don’t. It doesn’t serve anyone’s interest going forward.
I care about what’s best for EVERYONE involved, so long as they adhere to the proper secular, liberal principles. That’s called humanitarianism.
You only care about what’s best for “your people”. That’s called racism.
Posted by Joe | February 16, 2009, 10:40 pmYou’re a real Yevsektziya, Joe. You’re not unique in that way. In every generation we have to deal with you assimilation losers. And we will.
Posted by Anonymous | February 16, 2009, 11:36 pmI’m telling you, he’s so cute when he tries playing grown up. Joe you are a riot!
Posted by Anonymous | February 16, 2009, 11:44 pmMost Jews that left Arab countries did so of their own accord when Israel became a country. Not all of them were forced to leave.
The Palestinians were expelled from their homes before the Arabs irrationally took out their frustrations on the Jews that had been living amongst them for hundreds of years.
I’m sorry but Israel has no right to create a country for themselves on a land that was already occupied, then call in people from all over the world to settle it at the expense of the indigenous population.
Posted by Arayus | February 17, 2009, 2:02 amI haven’t read all the comments but to the cowardly ignorant anon who questioned me, Cenk’s position on the Armenians is actually excellent. His freaking co-host is Armenian. Looooool.
Posted by American Muslim Girl | February 17, 2009, 5:14 amOh yeah and that Looool was me laughing at your ignorance. I don’t know his position on the Kurds, I myself have unfortunately not had the chance to interview him, but I will try my best to placate your ridiculousness at the first opportunity.
Oh, and man Joe you are such an ass. I don’t… I can’t… Where do I start?
I do have one question for you. Is it OK for me to kill your mother if you kill mine? Please be intellectually honest in your answer, it would be refreshing.
Posted by American Muslim Girl | February 17, 2009, 5:21 amAMG, are you “Ashley”?
KABOBfesters, you should invite this person to be a contributer. She’s got plenty of hate and bigotry to add some valuable content to this blog.
Posted by programmer craig | February 17, 2009, 8:57 amMost Jews that left Arab countries did so of their own accord when Israel became a country.
Was it before or after they lost their jobs, their homes, their citizenship, etc?
Interesting you would try to make this claim, while at the same time denying Palestinians left their homes voluntarily…
Posted by programmer craig | February 17, 2009, 9:00 amPC,
What do you think should happen to the Palestinians who hold Israeli citizenship living in Israel?
Posted by Yasser | February 17, 2009, 10:13 amYasser, what do you think should happen to the Klingons who hold citizenship in the Federation?
Posted by programmer craig | February 17, 2009, 10:24 amWe have to have figures with a little celebrity (so they can get their foot in the door) and a quick, sharp wit to force these important questions on minds unwilling to hear them.
Interesting use of words there, AMG. Am I correct in assuming (based on that statement)that you support coercive means of advocating a political ideology?
This is from your profile:
Interests
* Islamaphobe baiting
Is that really your only interest? lol.
Nasty piece of work. Christians got lucky when you converted to Islam.
Posted by programmer craig | February 17, 2009, 10:30 amYou are right PC. I am a nasty piece of work, wallahi. Indeed, I am not “Ashley,” I am someone else you know, but I will keep that to myself. Yes, I love Islamaphobe baiting, it’s actually my favorite sport after arguing with idiot Muslims. You are a prime target. And another one down and another one down. another one bites the dust…
Posted by American Muslim Girl | February 17, 2009, 11:08 amYasser,
I would make all the Palestinians living in Israel watch me Teabag Ariel Sharon out of a coma. I bet i can do it. Then I’d kick them all out and take their homes and land. The night before, I’d break all the windows of their business and beat them up in the streets.
Posted by programmer craig | February 17, 2009, 11:09 amActually, let me clarify. I don’t argue with idiot Muslims, I just show them up and humiliate them publicly until they hopefully run crying to Mommy and at the end of the day learn to stop disrespecting themselves and their religion in front of idiots like you.
Posted by American Muslim Girl | February 17, 2009, 11:13 amI am someone else you know, but I will keep that to myself.
Then you must be “Safiyyah”. But how can you prove you aren’t both “Ashley” and “Safiyyah”? Or do all American converts to Islam sound the same?
Actually, let me clarify. I don’t argue with idiot Muslims, I just show them up and humiliate them publicly until they hopefully run crying to Mommy and at the end of the day learn to stop disrespecting themselves and their religion in front of idiots like you.
Hmmm.
And another one down and another one down. another one bites the dust…
You play sing-along with gay Zoroastrians? Does that qualify you as an idiot Muslim? I mean, according to your previously mentioned definition?
PS – I always knew you were ugly
Posted by programmer craig | February 17, 2009, 11:24 amSo anyway, you admit to subscribing to totalitarian imposition of ideology on the unwilling, right?
Just checking, because when you get your American ass thrown in an Egyptian prison I want to know whether its OK to say: “So, what’s the problem, American Muslim Girl? They are just doing to you what you wanted to do to them.”
Why do you post letters to your Christian family on your blog? Is it the only way you can hope to get them to read them? I suppose maybe they may have been “unwilling” to get a message “they didn’t want to hear”? And you haven’t been able to get your “foot in the door” and force them to acknowledge your superiority? It’s pretty pathetic, actually. And it seems your Egyptian in-laws are also pretty unhappy about the situation with you. Sometimes all those assholes just won’t come around no matter what you do, huh?
Posted by programmer craig | February 17, 2009, 11:40 amI’m reading a book right now about Iraqi Jews. Actually, i bought two books – one about Iraqi Jews and one about Kurdish Jews.
There were something like 400,000 Jews in Baghdad at the turn of the century. Towards the end, Iraqi politicians were passing laws appropriating their property, making it illegal for them to work, and threatening to essentially enslave them.
There were several massacres of Jews by their Arab neighbors and marauding Bedouin because everyone knew the British would not protect them.
Amid all that, when the Mossad was screaming that the situation was critical and they need to get the Jews out, the Israeli government placed severe quotas on Iraqi Jewish migration, preferring to accept European Jews, who generally were better educated and had skills that could be put immediately to work in the fledgling state. There was certainly some racism involved as well.
As for Palestinians, Arayus I thought we already had the discussion about the Nakhba. Benny Morris is the authority on the Palestinian exodus. His conclusions, basically, were that there was no plan to expel the Palestinians. Aside from some isolated incidents, the vast majority of Palestinians left in fear to avoid fighting, or because rumors were spreading of Yehudis massacring villages (which did not happen).
Most Palestinians expected to return once the fighting was over. However, the new Israeli government, struggling with war, lack of resources, massive waves of Jewish immigration and need to provide basic services (food, clothing, shelter), saw an opportunity to avoid having to deal with a massive and potentially hostile Arab population, and closed the borders.
Posted by Anonymous | February 17, 2009, 2:38 pm“”You’re a real Yevsektziya, Joe. You’re not unique in that way. In every generation we have to deal with you assimilation losers. And we will.”"
It’s those who RESIST assimilation who are the losers. You represent everything that’s wrong with religious Judaism.
Posted by Joe | February 17, 2009, 5:05 pm“”Most Jews that left Arab countries did so of their own accord when Israel became a country.”"
This is a lie. They were forced out, fearing for their lives.
“”I do have one question for you. Is it OK for me to kill your mother if you kill mine? Please be intellectually honest in your answer, it would be refreshing.”"
Depends on a lot of things. Depends what each of our mothers did, depends upon the context in which each is killed, depends on the timing, depends on the legal framework, depends on your definition of ‘Okay’, depends on your goals, depends on my goals, depends on which of our goals are legitimate.
Posted by Joe | February 17, 2009, 5:08 pmAlso, the Anonymous most recently above me has it right. I met plenty of Jews in Israel who were of Middle Eastern ancestry, whose parents fled those areas.
I met none whose parents and grandparents came to Israel during that time period who said it was a matter of free choice.
Any attempt to minimize that tragedy — that ‘nakbah’ roughly equivalent to what the Palestinians fleeing Israel experienced — is disgraceful and discredits those who refuse to care as much when it’s Jews who are the ones suffering as when it’s their own people.
Posted by Joe | February 17, 2009, 5:12 pmIt’s those who RESIST assimilation who are the losers. You represent everything that’s wrong with religious Judaism.
You’re such a cutie. Assimilation stems from accepting the basic premise of anti-semitism – that there is something wrong with Jews being Jews, and that we need to change.
I don’t blame you for how you feel, Joe. I was born (abroad) and raised an atheist and cultural Jew. I knew nothing about what it meant to be a Jew until roughly college, when I was forced to defend who I was and discovered I knew nothing about my own faith.
I thank G-d I was not born in the US, where reformist attitudes on faith have stripped Judaism of all spirituality and meaning. I may not have known anything about our faith, but when I was ready I could learn for myself. Those who were raised in Reform temples never had that chance to start with a clean slate. From their earliest experience they were fed lies and distortions.
A Jew who starts fresh can learn what it is to be a Jew, and do it. A Jew who grows up Reform thinks he knows what it is to be a Jew, so he hates Jews and Judaism. He first needs to unlearn all the crap they fed him, and then start fresh. It is much more difficult to do so.
You’re right to be angry, Joe. Those fuckers have taken so much from you – they’ve made you question your very essence. They’ll never tarnish your soul. You’re a Yid and that will never change.
Be a Jew.
Put on tefillin.
Posted by Anonymous | February 18, 2009, 8:07 am“”You’re such a cutie. Assimilation stems from accepting the basic premise of anti-semitism – that there is something wrong with Jews being Jews, and that we need to change.”"
See, you don’t understand what it means for a Jew to be a ‘Jew’, because you don’t understand what it is that makes Jews special. To the extent Jews are culturally special, it’s because we uphold cultural traits — outspokenness, iconoclasm, internationalism, cosmopolitanism, a confrontational devotion to truth, a defiance of social mores we deem ill-founded, a desire to better the world — that are ultimately beneficial to society and to ourselves. The culture of ‘true’ Judaism produces better people, and a better world.
Orthodox Judaism, and a belief in god more generally, is absolutely bankrupt in the above respect. Theism has been conclusively discredited, and the particular cultural mores of the orthodox are regressive and counterproductive both to those who practice it and to the larger world.
Look at Israel if you don’t believe me — you have the Orthodox breeding like cockroaches (the term fits well), contributing nothing to Israel, and doing their best to destroy it from within. They are parasites, plain and simple, holding back both Israel and Judaism from their proper greatness.
My Judaism is superior to your form of Judaism.
My godlessness is superior to your god.
My values are superior to your values.
The numbers and assets of my side are superior to yours.
God does not exist, and if he did, a true and just god would conclude that we were the superior heirs of the Jewish tradition.
We will fight you, in the larger battle for the soul of Judaism and if necessary in the streets. And we will win.
Be a Jew.
Give up your pathetic belief in god.
Posted by Joe | February 20, 2009, 7:36 amIt is a tragedy that the Arabs kicked out their Jewish populations after having lived with them for hundreds of years without to many major incidents. In fact Muslim-Jewish cooperation is something I studied quite a bit in University. And because of that I’m appalled at how low Muslim and Jewish relations have gone since the foundation of the state of Israel. Especially considering how high they used to be.
However, keep in mind that widespread Arab anger towards the Jews in their vicinities occurred as a result of the Palestinian Nakba. It was in 1951 that the Arab countries began the mass expulsion of Jews from their countries. Any other anger directed towards Jews was as a result of the Zionist movements explicit goal of creating a Jewish state at the expense of the native populations. But opposition to this came from pan-Syrian and pan-Arab movements primarily, and also from the people of Palestine who would suffer directly from this.
Also, many Arab countries have said that they would accept their Jewish populations back. Israel still refuses to accept the indigenous people of its land back, while continuing to immigrate people from everywhere but the Palestinian refugee camps to Israel to become Israeli citizens.
But on top of all this is the simple fact that the Palestinians did not expel the Jews from neighboring countries in the Middle East. Just like the Palestinians should not be punished for the crimes of Europe, they should not also be punished for the crimes of other countries in the region.
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