Even this guys is starting to get it
Palestinian self-described Chief Negotiator, Saeb Erakat, is among the latest to recognize the Two State No Solution fallacy. If this guy gets it, you have no excuse:
Palestinians may have to abandon the goal of an independent state if Israel continues to expand settlements and the United States does not stop it, chief Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erekat said on Wednesday.
Erekat said Clinton – who praised as unprecedented Netanyahu’s offer to temporarily limit construction in West Bank settlements to 3,000 additional housing units – was only opening the door to more settlements in the next two years.
The alternative left for Palestinians is to “refocus their attention on the one-state solution where Muslims, Christians and Jews can live as equals,” Erekat said. “It is very serious. This is the moment of truth for us.”
Palestinian political and business leadership has been the most fervent allies of the Zionist project over the past decade. They owe their rise and riches to the occupation-subcontracting series of agreements that are called the “peace process,” and as such have worked diligently to preserve the status quo by lies, promises, police state, bribes to mid-level leadership, and internal fighting and political divisiveness.
All of the above tactics, and the severe, long lasting harm they and the “peace process” caused where an affordable price for them to preserve their gain. Manipulation and prolonged their reign, divisiveness facilitated the rise of the other set of self-interested leadership, such as Hamas. Yet it appears that their luck is about to run out. Thanks in part for the Obama Administration, which took hardly anytime to prove that they are just a bunch of Bushies when it comes to Palestine-Israel.
The population at large has moved from naively optimistic and trusting to disgruntled, yet too disgusted to act. They have lost faith in any and all leaders regardless of party affiliation or ideology, that they had no motive to resist one with knowledge that it would strengthen the opposition, which is no less self interested and willing to abandon collective rights for individual or party gains. Over the past two years, especially after the Fatah-Hamas civil war (interrupted), this has been the mood.
Erakat’s admission of this reality (which still falls short as he is using it as a threat, not recognizing it as the only rightful option), is a recognition of the boiling waters in the Palestinian streets, and the rise of a new, politically-sophisticated, youthful leadership that is demanding out of the box thinking and refusing to blindly subscribe the hollow slogans historically parroted by political leaders from Fatah, Hamas, and all in between, as sound political strategy.
Hani Masri wrote an excellent article (in Arabic) published on Maan today. The column clearly reflects the growing sentiment of disillusion and rejection of the current leadership, the corrupted peace process, and throwing the Palestinians’ lot with the dishonest broker, The United States, which obviously is only an advocate of Israel’s position. Masri calls for the suspension of the peace process, rethinking the Palestinians position and demands, demanding negotiations supervised by honest multi-lateral broker, and leveraging the Palestinian position with the international BDS movement and questioning of Israel’s legitimacy, legitimate armed resistance, and block representation with other Arab delegations.
The more this position grows among Palestinians, the sooner we will see justice, peace, and equality.
[Tarboush tip: Layth]
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The only solution is to go straight to the end game. Negotiate the final status of borders, put it on paper and have all parties sign it. No intermediate steps whatsoever, since that's where people always find things to strat dragging their feet over. Done deal. What's so hard about that? It's what everyone says they want, right?
Posted by programmer craig | November 4, 2009, 5:58 pmYeap.
Hillary Clinton said, "Getting into final status negotiations will allow us to bring an end to settlement activity."
Posted by eagle007blogger | November 7, 2009, 1:40 pmi wish i would have thought of that brilliant idea myself craig.. simply genius!
Posted by alpheeto | November 4, 2009, 6:35 pmIt''s not genius, it's obvious. The only reason nobody "thinks" of it is that they don't want to solve the problem. They just want to posture, while continuing the conflict.
Posted by programmer craig | November 4, 2009, 6:38 pmglad you're finally realizing whats been going on too!
Posted by MohammadKF | November 4, 2009, 9:44 pmI don't know if you are being sarcastic or not, but I haven't changed my opinion on this matter in many years.
Posted by programmer craig | November 5, 2009, 12:34 amI agree, Palestinians should clean up their act and declare their full demands, no more of this endless step-by-step BS. But Israel had no motive to concede anything when the demands where small and transitional, so that is not going to change in the final stage unless the pressure outlined above is applied and fully leveraged, all the way through the end of negotiations and implementation of agreements.
Posted by Fayyad | November 5, 2009, 1:00 amBreaking News….
MUSLIM WACKO [Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan] KILLS 12, INJURES 31 IN VIRGINIA
Posted by mu-slime | November 6, 2009, 5:49 amCORRECTION: IN TEXAS
Posted by mu-slime | November 6, 2009, 5:50 amTo the white primate above,
Who gives a shit?
Posted by CaucasianFaggot | November 6, 2009, 7:17 amI am black, thank you. Stop being so racist. But it's all part of your muslime brainwashing, isn't it?
Posted by mu-slime | November 6, 2009, 12:11 pm"The more this position grows among Palestinians, the sooner we will see justice, peace, and equality"
I hope you are aware of how much damage a statement like that does to the Palestinian cause. This whole blog is unfortunately committed to propagating the silly idea of a "one state solution", what are people like you and Will thinking when you keep pushing it? How can you use this blog as a platform for something that not only will never, ever happen but is also an unwelcome distraction from the Palestinain struggle. Its obvious you are not thinking at all because anyone who knows anything about the conflict knows that Israelis would never accept such a solution for many reasons, the most important being that if the one-state were to materialize there wouldn't be any Jews in it! They would all pack up and leave to Europe and the US, Israeli officials know this, they're not stupid, they know that the only thing keeping Israelis put is that the live among other Jews in a Jewish state.
I would advise you and other misguided liberals/communists to come to your senses and stop deluding other impressionable Palestinians that something like a binational state could ever come true, that is harmful to them and to the Cause. So minshanAllah Stop!
Posted by Jerusalemite | November 6, 2009, 1:15 pm"The more this position grows among Palestinians, the sooner we will see justice, peace, and equality"
I hope you are aware of how much damage a statement like that does to the Palestinian cause. This whole blog is unfortunately committed to propagating the silly idea of a "one state solution", what are people like you and Will thinking when you keep pushing it? How can you use this blog as a platform for something that not only will never, ever happen but is also an unwelcome distraction from the Palestinain struggle. Its obvious you are not thinking at all because anyone who knows anything about the conflict knows that Israelis would never accept such a solution for many reasons, the most important being that if the one-state were to materialize there wouldn't be any Jews in it! They would all pack up and leave to Europe and the US, Israeli officials know this, they're not stupid, they know that the only thing keeping Israelis put is that the live among other Jews in a Jewish state.
I would advise you and other misguided liberals/communists to come to your senses and stop deluding other impressionable Palestinians that something like a binational state could ever come true, that is harmful to them and to the Cause. So minshanAllah Stop!
Posted by Jerusalemite | November 6, 2009, 1:15 pmMy dear, the one state solution is ALREADY here. Your beloved racist state of Israel initiated it in 1967 when it illegally occupied AND settled Arab land in violation of the Geneva conventions. You've shot yourselves in the foot BIG TIME. It has become obvious that the Abbas/Fatah camp was instrumental in cementing the settlement drive expansion right under our nose while empty peace slogans were chanted here and there. Look at the map and WAKE UP. Half a million Jewish colonists encircle and besiege dozens of Palestinian cities. The one state solution is already achieved. I can understand why most Israelis are opposed to it: They fear that equality would bring an end to the idea of a Jewish State. Well that is not so bad a thing is it? As refugees in Lebanon and elsewhere we were denied the most basic of human rights to return to our homes. Regardless of what compelled us to leave (for the record it was mostly to avoid death and famine) denying us this human right is an abomination. Therefore the circumstances around which the illegal state of israel came into existence speaks volumes. We will NEVER recognize Israel as a Jewish state, since it's sitting on our plundered lands. Now man up and accept reality: the world will soon impose full BDS until you racist thugs accord us ALL our human rights including freedom, dignity, and equality.
Read the book by Dr. Saree Makdisi, hopefully it will enlighten you about the inevitability of the single democratic state solution.
Posted by Nour Toukan | November 6, 2009, 8:30 pmYou are delusional, to imply that all reasonable Palestinians are Fathawis is incredibly dishonest. And if someone like me who cares about her people and their future enough to admit hard truths is a "racist thug", then so be it! Not only am I right about the impossibility of the binational state, I am more Palestinian than a blowhard like you will ever be.
Posted by Jerusalemite | November 6, 2009, 11:22 pmJerusalemite if I remember correctly you and I have agreed in the past on a number of posts, but I'm surprised at your outburst. Nour's points are valid; the one-state solution is there, on the ground. This idea that it'll never happen because it won't sit well with Israel and therefore shouldn't be pursued is illogical. If we are limiting our goals to the parameters Israel sets for us, then by default we aren't fighting for justice or for Palestine.
You say advocating for a solution that doesn't impose arbitrary borders between a nation, a solution that guarantees everybody justice, peace and equality, a solution that does away with supremacist ideologies is not worth fighting for, and is not the 'Cause'. What is the Cause to you?
Also, terming us all liberals/communists is silly and childish.
Posted by MohammadKF | November 7, 2009, 12:58 amThis idea that it'll never happen because it won't sit well with Israel and therefore shouldn't be pursued is illogical.
Israel is not going to allow it. Period. So it is impossible, because there is no way to "force" Israel to do it.
How retarded do you have to be to believe that Israel is going to absorb the entire Palestinian population as Israelis?
Posted by eagle007blogger | November 7, 2009, 5:51 amThe Cause to me is anything that's attainable and pragmatic, and the one-state solution is anything but that. The question isn't merely whether Israel would allow it or not, the real issue here is that the a binational state is nonnegotiable, its not on the table and it never will be. Every state acts according to its own self-interest, and I can say for a fact that giving up a state in favor of merging with another people is not what the majority of Israelis and their politicians believe would serve their states interest, in fact it would negate the very idea of their conception of Israel as a Jewish state. So if there is a child here its you and the rest of your self-deluding ilk, the way you keep harping about something about that can never happen, except in your own head.
Posted by Jerusalemite | November 7, 2009, 3:10 pmOk, I'll ignore your personal attacks and stick to substance. Again, you have not answered any of the questions put forth on the viability of an alternative to the one-state solution.
Please answer this: In the face of the cantonization of the West Bank, the mass land confiscation and the explosion of settlers and settlements, where exactly is a Palestinian state supposed to be set up?
If tomorrow Israel ethnically cleanses all the Palestinians from the West Bank, will you give up on striving for any Palestinian sovereignty there too, because it would not be pragmatic to do so? The Indians forced the British empire out of India, the Lebanese forces Israel out of Lebanon, non-white South Africans were absorbed into the official state-at the time these changes took place, the oppressor was infinitely stronger than the oppressed, yet the oppressed insistence on striving for justice and not crumbs from the oppressor-and they succeeded.
Posted by MohammadKF | November 7, 2009, 4:11 pmthe cantonization of the West Bank, the mass land confiscation and the explosion of settlers and settlements, where exactly is a Palestinian state supposed to be set up?
Hillary Clinton said, "Getting into final status negotiations will allow us to bring an end to settlement activity."
Posted by eagle007blogger | November 8, 2009, 8:06 amWell let it sink in really deep in your brain: We Palestinians in the diaspora (aka refugees, but i dont like that term since it's dehumanizing) will never give up an inch of our lands we were pushed out of. Israel as a Jewish state will NEVER be recognized by us or any principaled Palestinian in the territories. The One state solution is the only solution which accords everyone their full rights, including Jews!!!! What is your problem why are you so vehemently opposed to simple notions of justice and equality? Palestinians are far, far stronger sticking to this alternative rather than the 2-state no solution.
Posted by Nour Toukan | November 7, 2009, 6:58 pmYou started with the sexist personal attacks, I had no "outbursts" and what I'm saying is not silly or childish, its common sense. I realize that being rational about something so painful is uncommon and difficult but its the only way to understand what's going on and to predict future trends. And one state is certainly not part of the future. Palestine is different than all of the cases cited because identity and ideology play a massive role in the conflict. Israel was founded upon the racist ideology of Zionism,and that combined with ethnic Jewsih identity are the main factors that make the idea of one state that merges two identities, two peoples completely unacceptable to the strong side of the equation- the Jewish Israeli one.
Posted by Jerusalemite | November 7, 2009, 7:29 pmThe One state solution is the only solution which accords everyone their full rights, including Jews!!!
The Israeli citizens have their rights protected by the Israeli government. The Palestinians need to have their rights protected by a Palestinian government.
Palestinians are not Israeli citizens. why are you so vehemently opposed to simple notions of justice and equality? Non-citizens of a state do not have the same protections as citizens of that state. The state can protect those who are visiting legally, such as with Visas ect.
So the simple notion of "justice and equality" would be for the Palestinians to have a government that protects their human rights.
Posted by eagle007blogger | November 8, 2009, 7:52 amYour beloved racist state of Israel initiated it in 1967
The miltary buildup started because of false Soviet intelligence. But once the buildup started, Egyptian President Gamal Abdel Nasser couldn't quit – Amer and his military advisers were pressuring him, along with entire Arab world. He expelled the United Nations Emergency Force (UNEF) from the Sinai Peninsula in May 1967. He amassed 1,000 tanks and nearly 100,000 soldiers on the Israeli border and closed the Straits of Tiran.
It snowballed into a "destroy Israel" campaign with the Arab states all joining together in the United Arab Command. None of this was Israel's fault.
Israel decided to launch a military strike, aimed at liberating Israel from encirclement, and to prevent an impending assault by the United Arab Command. (The only ones who got "shot in the foot big time" as you say, were those planning to destroy Israel).
The Arabs also attempted to destroy Israel in 1948 – first there was a civil war between Jews and Palestinian Arabs, then the armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Iraq marched in. Within five and a half months, they were crushed, militarily and psychologically.
Demanding human rights while supporting the fedayeen and other terrorist attacks against Israel is hypocritical.
But the Palestinians definitely need an improvement to their condition, and improvements to their civil rights. Whether you believe that human rights are given by the creator, or you are secular and believe they occur as a result of being created, the governments job is to PROTECT those rights that already exist. SO….. the Palestinians need a government capable of protecting the rights of their citizens. Period.
They are not going to force Israel to "let them in" to become Israelis and have the Israeli government protect their rights…. they must have their own government within their own state.
Posted by eagle007blogger | November 7, 2009, 6:21 ammuslimes are very racist (and homophobic)
Posted by Najibullah Zazi | November 6, 2009, 1:45 pmBeing a gay, secular Muslim, I'm offended by your post. Stop generalizing, it only points to ignorance and fear.
Posted by Nour Toukan | November 6, 2009, 8:33 pm"secular" muslim??? How can you be secular and belong to a religion? Can we say "contradiction"?
Posted by Najibullah Zazi | November 7, 2009, 5:38 amNo it's simple….It means i was born to Muslim parents. Although i respect my background and parent's beliefs and traditions, i don't practice at all. Does this answer your question?
Posted by Nour Toukan | November 7, 2009, 6:38 pmPerhaps you meant you keep your religion separate from your politics?
Posted by Najibullah Zazi | November 7, 2009, 5:41 amIt's you who need to separate your criminal politics from your religion(whatever that is sucking zionist cock and all). ameriCunt hypocrites make me laugh.
Posted by Timothy McVeigh | November 17, 2009, 6:37 amSo says the neo-Nazi faggot who has a swatika up his ass sideways.
Posted by Timothy McVeigh | November 17, 2009, 6:35 amIranian-backed Hezbollah agreed on Friday to join a national unity government proposed by Prime Minister-designate Saad al-Hariri. Hezbollah heads an alliance of parties supported by Syria and Iran. Hariri's coalition is Western- and Saudi-backed and won victory in parliamentary elections in June.
Saudi Arabia has carried out airstrikes against "infiltrators" from Yemen, and vows to press on with the military action until the border with its restive neighbor is secure. The strikes target Shiite rebels, known as Hawthis, who have been battling Yemeni government forces for the past few months in Yemen's northern Saada province. Yemen's president is a key ally of the Saudis. Shiite Iran is believed to favour the rebels in Yemen while Saudi Arabia, which is Sunni, is Iran's fiercest regional rival.
The Yemeni government openly accuses Iran of arming the Hawthis rebels.
In Lebanon, Iran supports the Shiite militant Hezbollah and Saudi Arabia favours a U.S.-backed faction. In Iraq, Saudi Arabia and Iran have thrown support to conflicting sides in the Sunni-Shiite struggle.
And in Israel more attention is being focused on unfair jailing practices.
Posted by eagle007blogger | November 7, 2009, 8:25 amConcerning Iran… here is a very interesting program
Posted by eagle007blogger | November 7, 2009, 12:59 pmFrom the haaretz article….
Citing the 2003 peace Road Map, Abbas has made a cessation of Israeli settlement activity in the West Bank a precondition for resuming statehood talks with Israel.
The road map also required that Palestinians dismantle armed groups like Islamist Hamas, which opposes peace talks. That did not happen, and Hamas now controls the Gaza Strip – half the Palestinian polity – in a running challenge to Abbas' mandate.
Perhaps Clinton said the wisest thing, "Getting into final status negotiations will allow us to bring an end to settlement activity." In other words, once there ARE borders, there will be no Israeli settlements outside of Israeli borders. Simple.
Let's see if Palestinian elections go forward in January. Hamas is threatening people not to vote.
Posted by eagle007blogger | November 7, 2009, 8:37 amAs if you care about Palestinians. You're nothing but another dime-a-dozen zionist cocksucker living in Disney Land.
Posted by Timothy McVeigh | November 17, 2009, 6:38 amI am not opposed to justice and equality, I just don't believe that they drives politics and international relations. Your anger has unfortunately blinded you to the facts on the ground, here's a piece of advice- when it comes to this conflict, emotions are better checked at the door.
Posted by Jerusalemite | November 7, 2009, 7:30 pmJerusalemite, for the last time can you please address the question I have repeatedly asked? Where will this Palestinian state be founded?
Also I'm sorry to say but you are quite mistaken in thinking that identity and ideology didn't play a role in the cases I didn't cite. Indians were fighting the ideology of British imperialism and European ethnosupremacy. Non-white South Africans were fighting an ideology that is almost identical to Zionism in its colonialist, supremacist, nationalist agenda. And the Lebanese fought the same enemy we are fighting.
Now, will you answer my question please?
Posted by MohammadKF | November 7, 2009, 8:03 pmWhere will this Palestinian state be founded?
No one knows yet because the Palestinians are stalling!
Hillary Clinton said, "Getting into final status negotiations will allow us to bring an end to settlement activity."
And the Lebanese fought the same enemy we are fighting.
Newsflash: The Palestinians cannot outfight the Israelis. And they certainly aren't going to fight their way into becoming Israeli citizens! That's ridiculous.
Posted by eagle007blogger | November 8, 2009, 8:03 amAsking where the state would be founded is confusing the issue at hand, which is the impossibility of a binational state. And the fact that many Palestinians refuse to acknowledge this does not undermine the validity of my argument, and neither does the fact that someone like eagleblogger supports it, after all, even a hateful redneck can be right once in a while. So khalas, the binational state is a figment of liberal Palestinians' imagination and they will continue to dream on. Have fun in la la land where Jews, Christians and Muslims will live happily ever after in one Holy state!
Posted by Jerusalemite | November 8, 2009, 9:01 pmYou insist a one-state solution is a figment of the dreams of 'liberals' (I'm not a liberal), but refuse to give ANY explanation why a two-state solution would be possible.
Do you have an argument to support your position, or are you just attacking ours without an alternative? We are on the same side here, we want justice-but you're refusing to provide an alternative that we may put our energies into. You say a one-state is impossible because 'Ísrael won't allow it', but Israel won't allow an independent Palestinian state either. So what do you propose?
Posted by MohammadKF | November 9, 2009, 12:59 pmJerusalemite, good luck pursuing the 2-state no solution. Good luck with the negotiations departmy ent and good luck forcing Israel to do anything which would accord you your human rights.
I was gullable and naive enough to pursue this shadow in the last 18 years and arrived at the conclusion later but better than never: 2-state "solution" would bring about a castrated little enclave called Palestine with no Jerusalem, no water, no Jordan valley, and certainly no sovereignty. If this appeals to you please by all means continue to write and talk but I doubt anyone will take you seriously. On the other hand I'll be in the real world reaffirming my rights as a human being.
Posted by Nour Toukan | November 8, 2009, 5:10 amforcing Israel to do anything which would accord you your human rights
Your human rights are accorded to you upon creation, not by a government. A government does not give you your rights, it protects them.
It is not up to Israel to "give" the Palestinians their rights, it is Israel's duty not to violate them. The Palestinians rights will be protected by their government, which they do not have yet. The human rights situation will improve upon the creation of a Palestinian state – so why be obtuse and obstinate about creating that state?
Posted by eagle007blogger | November 8, 2009, 7:59 amI agree. Why would Israel surrender their state after fighting so hard for it for 6 decades – since its very beginning?
Advocating for a nonnegotiable solution is a waste of time.
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