[Image source Mahjoob]
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Is Emad Hajjaj a Christian? Do I even need to bother asking?
What would you think of it if somebody (Jews!) made cartoons of Santa Claus being beheaded by an Islamist terror group? Or maybe Santa Clause could be taken hostage in Gaza and converted to Islam at gunpoint on YouTube? That would be pretty funny, right? Or maybe a suicide bomber could blow up his sled? Don't you think my examples are more realistic than these ones your Muslim friends have been providing?
Posted by programmer craig | December 27, 2009, 11:56 amWatch this Programmer Craig, it is for an orphan home in Lebanon that hosts kids from all faiths http://www.elaph.com/Web/Video/2009/12/517079.htm
Thanks
Posted by Hanitizer | December 27, 2009, 4:01 pmIt's interesting you use Lebanon as an example, since it's the only country in the Middle-East where Christians aren't a clear minority. Would you say Christians and Muslims have a history of getting along in Lebanon?
Also, there's another clear difference. This video doesn't seem to be trying to exploit a Christian holiday to serve an Islamist agenda. That makes it quite different from the posts you've been making, Hanitizer.
Posted by programmer craig | December 27, 2009, 4:10 pmSince when is Santa Claus a Christian character?
Reality check… nobody over 7 years old actually believes in Santa Claus. Please just can the fake outrage.
Posted by Kamal | December 28, 2009, 2:22 amAnd please can the fake disclaimer. What's at issue is Christmas and Christianity, not Santa Claus. If you are going to claim Santa Claus is just a western cartoon character intended to entertain children, then obviously Santa Claus would have been proclaimed a Jew and beaten to death on HAMAS television. That's how much respect Palestinians have for popular western cartoon characters, and for children.
Posted by programmer craig | December 29, 2009, 8:17 amTurkey seeks return of Santa Claus' bones
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8432314.stm
The 3rd Century saint – on whom Santa Claus was modelled – was buried in the modern-day town of Demre in Turkey.
He was born in what was then the Greek city of Myra in the third century, and went on to become the local bishop, with a reputation for performing miracles and secretly giving gold to the needy – on one occasion being forced to climb down a chimney to leave his donation.
After his death he was canonised as Saint Nicholas, and venerated in much of the Christian world. But when Myra was occupied by Arab forces in the 11th Century, Italian sailors came and took the saint's bones to the port of Bari, where they remain interred to this day.
Seems the Turks not only believe in Santa Clause, they are demanding the "return" of his remains, despite the fact that he was a Greek Christian born on Greek land who predates not just the existence of Turkey but the existence of Islam, itself!
The nerve of some people! The nerve! Right!?
Well, I think this is a call for the Greek Orthodox Church to make. Perhaps if the Turks agreed to convert to Christianity and return Asia Minor? Maybe they could rename Istanbul to Constantinople while they are at it…
Posted by programmer craig | December 29, 2009, 11:53 amlol… even Wikipedia has already made an entry about this!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Nicholas
On the 28th of December 2009, the Turkish Government announced that it would be formally requesting the return of St Nicolas's bones to Turkey from the Italian government. Turkish authorities have cited the fact that Saint Nicolas himself wanted to be buried at his birthplace. They also state that his remains were illegally removed from Turkey.
Illegally removed from Turkey? I think they meant to say legally saved from illegally invading Arab Muslims, or some such! I can't wait for it to go to court
Posted by programmer craig | December 29, 2009, 12:05 pmOh like that's not happened before!
Posted by Shafiq | December 27, 2009, 4:12 pm"What would you think of it if somebody (Jews!) made cartoons of Santa Claus being beheaded by an Islamist terror group? Or maybe Santa Clause could be taken hostage in Gaza and converted to Islam at gunpoint on YouTube?"
Good point Craig. I'm getting really tired of these provocative cartoonists and poets, especially in light of all the bombings/shootings that have targeted Christians in the ME this last week. I think this cartoon is designed just for the sake of causing anger, because what Christian in the right mind is going to look at it and say "oh, why have I been so concerned about these church bombings in Iraq and Pakistan? Jewish soldiers are sabotaging the Holiday season!" Its almost like the creator of this cartoon wants Christians, who are brutalized day in and day out in Muslim countries, to put aside their differences with Fundamentalist Muslims to fight the "common enemy" aka the Jews. Yeah, right.
Posted by C.H. | December 27, 2009, 6:28 pmReally? Because it seems to met, it seems it's the other way round. How many times do I hear the meaningless phrase Judeo-Christian, as if they've shared some kind of history together? How many times do I hear it as a means of forming an alliance against the 'Mozlemz' or 'A-rabs'?
Posted by Shafiq | December 27, 2009, 8:19 pmYes, CH, it's either mean-spirited sarcasm intended to offend or the author's really are oblivious to Christian perceptions. Either way, I don't see how it serves Hanitizer's purposes. I doubt he'll win a single convert Christian convert to the Palestinian cause using this tactic. I mean, what's it supposed to be? A public service to let Christians know who has "really" been victimizing them?
Posted by programmer craig | December 27, 2009, 8:51 pmNo, they aren't more realistic you moron, lol. The chances of being terrorized while being Palestinian & living in Palestine by Israelis is far greater than me being bombed while going Christmas shopping here in Chicago.
Posted by DerpaDerp | December 23, 2011, 10:55 pm…Judeo-Christian, as if they've shared some kind of history together?
As if? They DO. lol.
Posted by programmer craig | December 27, 2009, 8:45 pmYes, you mean all the times Christians expelled Jews from their countries? And when they weren't doing that, they were busy killing them.
Great shared history!
Posted by Shafiq | December 27, 2009, 8:54 pmThat's not the point, but it's interesting you raise it. Because you are correct. Christians have persecuted Jews very badly over the centuries. I can't think of a single incident in which Jews have persecuted Christians, though. And so it's a very hard sell for anyone trying to claim that Jews are the enemies of Christians, and Muslims aren't. Because Muslims commit atrocities against Christians on a near daily basis, Shafiq. If somebody is legitimately trying to open up an interfaith dialog to try to reduce the hostility between Christianity and Islam I'm all for that, but to pretend that there is no hostility between the two? While at the same time trying to claim Jews are the real problem? Somebody would have to be batshit crazy to go along with that.
So anyway to get back to the point, the history of Judaism and the history of Christianity are one in the same up to the time of Jesus. And Jesus himself was a Jewish rabbi. I'm not sure what part of "Judeo-Christian" you object to but from a Christian perspective it's a very accurate term in that it describes Christianity as being derived from Judaism.
Posted by programmer craig | December 27, 2009, 9:24 pmErmm….hello! Palestinian Christians? There isn't any animosity between Christians and Muslims in the area where I live and in Britain in gerneral, but it seems that there are people, especially state-side who want to form a 'Judeo-Chrisian alliance' against the Moslems. It's a good way to portray Muslims as the 'other'.
Christianity didn't exist pre-Jesus' death, so to say their history was one and the same is a false notion. The term Judeo-Christian is regularly used to describe Western history, which is false. Its proponents usually claim that Muslims are a threat and must be opposed no matter what the costs.
Posted by Shafiq | December 27, 2009, 9:33 pmThere isn't any animosity between Christians and Muslims in the area where I live and in Britain in gerneral
Lots of subjective and irrelevant analysis on your part is contained in that statement of yours. There isn't any animosity between Christians and Muslims here where I live either, but that might change if Muslims amounted to more than a percent or two of the population here. Let me ask you for your honest opinion: if the area I live in was instead 99% Muslim and 1% Christian, do you think that I could still say that there was no animosity between Christians and Muslims here in my town?
…but it seems that there are people, especially state-side who want to form a 'Judeo-Chrisian alliance' against the Moslems.
As far as "state-side", we're a lot more Christian over here than people in Europe are. If you didn't know that, you haven't been paying attention. As for the "alliance against the Moslems" as far as I can recall Osama bin Ladin didn't leave us much choice when he declared jihad on Christians and Jews. Why aren't you criticizing him? Why are you criticizing his victims, instead? His terror network tried to blow up an American passenger jet on CHRISTMAS DAY. Coincidence?
It's a good way to portray Muslims as the 'other'.
Yes. It isn't Muslims who have a problem with "the other". It's Christians who have the problem. That's totally obvious from facts on the ground, right?
Christianity didn't exist pre-Jesus' death, so to say their history was one and the same is a false notion.
Your statement is a bit of an oxymoron. Jesus was a Jewish rabbi and Christianity is based entirely upon Judaism, yet you are making some kind of distinction between the two. From a Christian perspective, Christianity is Judaism 2.0 and Jews are merely the people who didn't upgrade.
The term Judeo-Christian is regularly used to describe Western history, which is false.
No, it's used to describe western cultural traditions. Which is true
…Its proponents usually claim that Muslims are a threat and must be opposed no matter what the costs.
Actually, Christians are perfectly happy with ignoring Islam. Again, you blame the victims of aggression for the aggression. What's up with that?
Posted by programmer craig | December 27, 2009, 10:31 pmWhere I live, the Muslim population is close to 50% and there still isn't any animosity between Muslims and Christians. Our relationship is quite close, in fact.
State-side Christians also happen to be more extreme and political than their European counterparts. Since when did Osama bin Laden represent the opinion of the Muslim world? It seems you like blaming all Muslims for the actions of the few. I have criticised Bin Laden on many occasions and since when have I criticised his victims?
Yes. It isn't Muslims who have a problem with "the other". It's Christians who have the problem. That's totally obvious from facts on the ground, right?
Yes, in the West it totally is. Have I just imagined articles by prominent American Christians and Jews calling for the expulsion of Muslims, restrictions on their entry, freedom to worship, or even all out war against them?
Your statement is a bit of an oxymoron. Jesus was a Jewish rabbi and Christianity is based entirely upon Judaism, yet you are making some kind of distinction between the two. From a Christian perspective, Christianity is Judaism 2.0 and Jews are merely the people who didn't upgrade.
Yes, and Islam is meant to be Judaism 3.0, but that does not mean Jewish and Muslim history is intertwined, does it? Islamic history as a concept didn't exist before Muhammed, the same way Christian history didn't exist before the advent of Christianity. With the advent of Christianity, Judaism and Christianity went their separate ways.
Western cultural institutions evolved as a reaction to religion. Enlightenment writers rarely if ever, mentioned Christianity as their motivation for their ideals, never mind Judaism. Christianity and Judaism were definitely not the inspiration for the founding fathers' concept of freedom of religion and freedom of conscience. Any way you put it, Judeo-Christian history is a false notion.
Again, you blame the victims of aggression for the aggression. What's up with that?
Again, I'm not blaming the victims (as if Christians as a whole are the victims). Your statement implies that there is a 'clash of civilisations/religions', which is exactly what I'm criticising – attempts by extremists on both sides to make it so.
Posted by Shafiq | December 27, 2009, 10:55 pmYes, and Islam is meant to be Judaism 3.0, but that does not mean Jewish and Muslim history is intertwined, does it?
I'm not a Muslim so I can't really answer that. However, the prophet was not Jewish. He was a pagan Arab when he received his first revelation. Also, his earliest followers were not Jews. Nor did he live and teach in the heartland of Judaism. I suppose some Muslims claim (if they wanted to) that there is a spiritual progression between Islam and both Judaism and Christianity. However, in the case of Christianity the connection is quite literal.
Yes, in the West it totally is. Have I just imagined articles by prominent American Christians and Jews calling for the expulsion of Muslims, restrictions on their entry, freedom to worship, or even all out war against them?
Rhetoric doesn't matter. Actions matter. If we held people responsible for the things they say half the people on KABOBfest would be in prison right now, right?
Sorry I don't have time to respond in more detail but I think we've both come to the conclusion we aren't ever going to agree on this one, anyway
Posted by programmer craig | December 29, 2009, 8:28 amSorry I don't have time to respond in more detail but I think we've both come to the conclusion we aren't ever going to agree on this one, anyway
Yes, I agree. That seems to happen quite often, doesn't it?
Posted by Shafiq | December 29, 2009, 9:55 amwhat this guy doesn't realize is this is a reality for palestinians, which is why it is also funny. See, humor is funny because it's true, no matter how painful, and as a Palestinian raised Christian, I wouldn't be surprised to hear about this exact incident happening to anyone back home, whether they have anything to do with politics or not. And that's the double truth, ruth. So all this talk about Judaieoislamichristianism isn't really taking us anywhere in the arguments especially as they pertain to the framework that "programmer" is trying to use to direct this argument. The fact is, palestinians are daily subject to the unregulated real human terror of colonization, if he doesn't understand that (especially in today's globalized world where information is easy to obtain and sift through), he is simply ignorant.
Posted by Husam | December 24, 2011, 1:57 amto put it in dummy terms, it is an issue of racist threat-of-violence to control the indigenous Palestinian population, regardless of religious belief, and, as is common in a system of colonial control as a tactic, the added element of ARBITRARY violence, which is an indiscriminate tool of a military whose aim is to "control" 'rule" "civilize" etc. basically colonize, the indigenous population. This has been the objective trajectory of the Zionist State of Israel since its inception.
Posted by Husam | December 24, 2011, 2:01 am