The United States government has had such a hard time getting Israel to see its way on the question of ending the Israeli occupation and Palestinian autonomy. How is it that the world’s superpower is relatively weak next to a tiny state of 6 million people?
One reason must be that American policymakers have a seriously handicapped toolbox when it comes to foreign policy against Israel. While international affairs are pursued through the application of carrots and sticks, through inducements and threats, the United States only seems to have inducements when it comes to Israel. It is as if the United States can only play good cop, with no bad cop to affect the preferable outcomes.
This ineffectual policy stance was illuminated brightly in the reaction against what Obama’s Middle East envoy George Mitchell said Wednesday: “Under American law, the United States can withhold support on loan guarantees to Israel.” The loan guarantees means the United States will pay off loans Israel takes out and cannot repay, up to a certain limit.
American law requires that limit on loan guarantees be reduced proportionate to Israel’s spending on settlements. Does it happen? It has, but with little deterrence effect. Has it been threatened before? Yes and yes.
Yet in the current context of Israeli-American Siamese twinness, this threat becomes translated as sanctions, Israel went ballistic and American policymakers moved to shoot this down.
These possible sanctions are barely sanctions, they are the equivalent of removing a luxury; once that luxury is removed many more remain, as does the general thrust of pro-Israel orientation. So, it is barely a threat, nothing on par with the full economic embargo the United Nations, via the U.S., enforced against Iraq in a failed attempt to drive impoverished and starved Iraqis into mass rebellion.
Yet, this simple idea of the United States withholding one of the many gifts it bestows on Israel as a result of Israeli intransigence sent Israel and pro-Israel politicians in American into a tailspin.
Former presidential candidate Senator John McCain stated his opposition and said that he expects the White House to confirm soon that this threat is not its policy. The three other senators, Joseph Lieberman, John Barrasso and John Thune, agreed with McCain. It is incredible that American politicians rail against welfare for Americans, but gladly send billions to Israel.
How does this logic of unconditional support — the upfront banning of even the most obvious, sensible and legally-mandated sanction — help American policymakers in the region? Such declarations destroy America’s bargaining position vis-a-vis Israel, ruin America’s credibility as a peace mediator, and does nothing to work against a clearly disastrous status quo.
Related posts:
- Cambridge City Council calls for re-evaluation of US policy toward Israel
- Palestinian Citizens of Israel: Govt. Policy Does not Discriminate
- Mearsheimer on Foreign Policy at ADC Convention
- The Arab-American FOB Street on Politics: What they’re saying about the primaries
- Obama says Iraq trip could refine his policy
"the United Nations, via the U.S., enforced against Iraq in a failed attempt to drive impoverished and starved Iraqis into mass rebellion."
There was a rebellion BEFORE the sanctions…the US and the UN chose not to do anything to help, even though hundreds of thousands of soldiers from the int'l community had just been fighting Saddam's Army.
Posted by C.H. | January 10, 2010, 8:40 pm…the United States only seems to have inducements when it comes to Israel. It is as if the United States can only play good cop, with no bad cop to affect the preferable outcomes.
Will, that's the way it works with allies. You might have been able to pick up on that if you didn't hate all of America's allies so much. Did you notice all those sanctions the US slapped on the UK when they released the Libyan terrorist who blew up an American plane? How about the sanctions we put on Germany when they released the Lebanese terrorist who hijacked an American plane and tortured an American passenger to death? See? All carrots. No stick. One of the perks of having good relations with another country. Someday if you work really hard at it, you may figure out how the world really works. But only if you can get past your obsession with Jews controlling the world and other such conspiracies. And what are the odds that's going to happen?
Posted by programmer craig | January 10, 2010, 10:52 pmsanctions on Britain and Germany.
Are you high???
Provide proof!!
Posted by Ooo | January 13, 2010, 4:58 amBut programmer, shouldn't the US put at least some honest pressure on Israel regarding the settlements? Withholding loan guarantees could be effective. Some analysts credit the defeat of Shamir in the early 90's to Bush Sr. for threatening to withhold loans regarding the settlements.
Me personal opinion though, is that the US should just butt out. I think it's obvious it's not a very honest broker.
Posted by AC Slater | January 13, 2010, 6:11 amPalestine human rights activists talk about… human rights.
Israel is a massively racist human rights violator, period.
Israel richly deserves to be boycotted, isolated, driven out of business exactly as Apartheid South Africa was.
Craig –Why do you keep projecting your fantasies of anti-Semitism onto Palestine human rights activists? They don't talk about Jews, but you do. You do. Why?
We will keep on with human rights actions against Israel. And I suppose you will keep on inventing anti-Semitic motives for that. Have fun.
Posted by Boycott on campus | January 11, 2010, 3:02 amCraig –Why do you keep projecting your fantasies of anti-Semitism onto Palestine human rights activists? They don't talk about Jews, but you do. You do. Why?
Bullshit. I've been called "Jew" on half a dozen Arab blogs, even though I'm not Jewish. And the usage has definitely been derogatory. Also, lets not forget Will's "Chaim Sugarman" persona in which he uses a demeaning stereotype of a Jewish person to make posts on this very blog. Just because you claim that Palestinian activists are motivated by politics and not by bigotry doesn't make it so.
Posted by programmer craig | January 11, 2010, 5:22 pmwithout forget that Palestinians are Semitic
Posted by Ahmed | January 11, 2010, 8:34 amIsrael has stated publicly that they don't need the US loan guarantees.
Therefore the US shouldn't force them to take it.
Withdraw the guarantees.
Even Israel says aren't needed.
America needs to have the courage to go it's own way.
Right now, Israel can pretty much dictate to the US congress what it wants…and it's sure to get it.
Problem is….Most Republican congressmen actually feel more akin to Israel than to the US.
Like many American Christians they base their foreign policy stance on the Bible verse:
"And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him
that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of
the earth be blessed (Genesis 12:3)"
Go ahead. Ask any conservative Christian to interpret the meaning of that verse and they will pretty much tell you that if the US doesn't kowtow to Isreal, God will "send down fire and brimstone" on us.
Sounds pretty ridiculous but it's true.
Under a Republican administration you had better dust off your Bible because the US will be formulating foreign policy based on the the book of Revelations.
They Sound like the Taliban to me.
Posted by norris hall | January 11, 2010, 5:30 pm"Problem is….Most Republican congressmen actually feel more akin to Israel than to the US."
The Republicans have a weak minority in BOTH houses of Congress right now…Democrats and liberal politicians support Israel as much as any of the Republicans. Its democracy…I'm tired of having to explain this to you guys.
Posted by C.H. | January 11, 2010, 8:47 pmWell said!
If Israel doesn't need it why is US so keen on forcing it down their throats?
//Problem is….Most Republican congressmen actually feel more akin to Israel than to the US. //
I have to disagree with you on that. Like C.H. commented in the prev. reply, Republicans have a weak majority in BOTH houses. Dems and liberals all support Israel as much as any Republican.
Now how did it come to that? Dems and liberals seemingly have no motive to support Israel unlike the Republicans.
American democracy has become a democracy:
for the money, by the money, of the money
Now whoever spends the most money in American politics gets their policies implemented. I'm sure you'll agree, a rudimentary study on American foreign and domestic policies just goes to show this point.
Posted by OooKhalid | January 13, 2010, 5:29 amOK, Craig, then it's settled.
Because you have sniffed out anti-Semitism on some blog comments– the Palestinians will never, ever be able to return to their homes in Palestine.
And the Boycott-Israel campaign is now canceled.
And Palestinians will now beg Israel to ship them to a desert island of Israel's choosing, probably one of those islands where the U.S. tested The Bomb.
Is that a fair compensation, to you, for the pain you have suffered in blog comments, or do you ask for more?
Posted by Boycott Israel | January 11, 2010, 5:33 pmBecause you have sniffed out anti-Semitism on some blog comments
Dude, you're the one who brought up the bigotry issue.
– the Palestinians will never, ever be able to return to their homes in Palestine.
Is that some kind of code phrase for walking over the corpses of dead Israelis during their triumphant return? Because if it is, you are right – I am totally opposed to that. But if you're talking about some kind of arrangement by which both Israelis and Palestinians get to peacefully coexist, I am all in favor of it, but I have no clue how that's ever going to happen.
Posted by programmer craig | January 11, 2010, 5:58 pmCraig,
Why is it that returning to your own 1948 or 1967 homeland is regarded as some dread anti-Semitic thing, when Palestinians ask to do it?
What do you imagine Palestinians are?
Boycott Israel– until return!
Posted by Boycott Israel | January 11, 2010, 6:11 pmWhat do you imagine Palestinians are?
I imagine they are people who danced in the streets on 9/11. I imagine they are people who have Mickey Mouse the Jew being beaten to death on a Children's TV program. I imagine they are people who kidnap American journalists and force them to convert to Islam at gunpoint. And etc. So, with me imagining that Palestinians have been indoctrinating their children for jihad for many generations the way I do, how can I also imagine than a Palestinian "return" will be peaceful? Wouldn't I have to be some kind of incredible fool to believe that at this late date there is any hope of Palestinians and Israelis ever living together in peace? Even if Palestinians did decide that's what they wanted, it would be another 40 years before enough generations of Palestinians were raised without the brainwashing before it could happen. I'll be long since retired by then but feel free to share with me the good news when that happens. In the meantime, I'm going to maintain a healthy skepticism about Palestinian intent.
I notice that when you say "Boycott Israel" it's like holding a cross up to a vampire's face.
I don't care if you want to boycott Israel. I'm not Israeli. I don't even know any Israelis. Knock yourself out.
Posted by programmer craig | January 11, 2010, 9:25 pmTruly mind blowing hypocrisy, even for you, PC. In the same thread you whine about the non-existent anti-Semitism here, you go off on a whacked-out racist wankfest like this. This remark puts your whole agenda into stark perspective.
Posted by Sean2009 | January 12, 2010, 12:22 amWow, why am I surprised that you not only engage in (western) political correctness but play the race card in the same couple sentences, Sean? That's par for the course for an American "liberal", isn't it? Yet, somehow I thought you were atypical.
Couple questions. How come when somebody from another country rants about the behavior of Americans it's just criticism, but when an American rants about the behavior of people in other countries it is racism?
And when you get done pondering that, riddle me this. Would you say that Germans in the 1930s were "good" people? Because, I wouldn't. I'd say they were about as bad as human beings ever get. People are easily led astray, and once they do go astray I personally don't think they can be considered "good" people, on a societal level. Wouldn't it be absurd in my example to call the Germans who for the most part enthusiastically supported nazism "good people", Sean? They fucking weren't good people. They were bad people. That's not to say Germans aren't good people now. Lets hope they stay on the right path. And lets also hope that Palestinians GET on the right path. Because, they've been led astray.
Posted by programmer craig | January 12, 2010, 2:13 amWow, why am I surprised that you not only engage in (western) political correctness but play the race card in the same couple sentences, Sean? That's par for the course for an American "liberal", isn't it? Yet, somehow I thought you were atypical.
Don't give me the PC nonsense. That's a standard right-wing dodge. You are the first one to scream anti-Semite whenever anyone criticizes Israel, and you call me PC? You slander all Palestinians everywhere as terrorists and murderers based on a single video allegedly showing a handful of Palestinians celebrating 9-11—which whether true or not was a dazzling display of anti-Muslim propaganda deliberately shown hundreds of times on 9-11 to generate the maximum rage against Muslims. This is blatantly racist. No one reading the screed you wrote could possibly concluded anything but that you have an all-encompassing hatred of Palestinians.
Posted by Sean2009 | January 12, 2010, 2:57 amDon't give me the PC nonsense. That's a standard right-wing dodge.
If the shoe fits, wear it. You're the one ducking and weaving.
You are the first one to scream anti-Semite whenever anyone criticizes Israel, and you call me PC?
a) I don't use the word "anti-semite". I used the word "bigot".
b) I don't care if people criticize Israel, I care when people call me a redneck, a cracker, trailer-trash or various other ethnic slurs people have used against me personally on this blog. I also care when some of those same bigots pretend not to be motivated by bigotry, when we all know the primary motivating factor for a bigot is hate.
You slander all Palestinians everywhere as terrorists and murderers based on a single video allegedly showing a handful of Palestinians celebrating 9-11
You slander all Americans when you try to cover up the fact that Palestinians all across the occupied territories and in the camps in Lebanon were wildly celebrating on 9/11.
—which whether true or not was a dazzling display of anti-Muslim propaganda deliberately shown hundreds of times on 9-11 to generate the maximum rage against Muslims.
So you don't think Americans had a right to know how the attacks were being celebrated in parts of the Muslim world, Sean? What was that you said about how you aren't "politically correct"? It's pretty appalling that you think Americans should have been denied the truth about how joyful Palestinians were at the tragedy that befell us. Especially since Osama bin Ladin listed Palestine as one of his major grievances against the US. You would want us to be lied to and told that people who are obviously our enemies are actually our friends. Just because it suits your political agenda as a pro-Palestinian activist. Buddy, that's about as politically-correct as it gets.
This is blatantly racist. No one reading the screed you wrote could possibly concluded anything but that you have an all-encompassing hatred of Palestinians.
I see. And do you apply the same standard to yourself when you savage Israelis about "war crimes", murder, stealing land, collective punishment and yada yada yada? Or do you deny doing that? Gonna ask me to prove it, now?
Posted by programmer craig | January 12, 2010, 4:07 pmSo you don't think Americans had a right to know how the attacks were being celebrated in parts of the Muslim world, Sean? What was that you said about how you aren't "politically correct"? It's pretty appalling that you think Americans should have been denied the truth about how joyful Palestinians were at the tragedy that befell us. Especially since Osama bin Ladin listed Palestine as one of his major grievances against the US. You would want us to be lied to and told that people who are obviously our enemies are actually our friends. Just because it suits your political agenda as a pro-Palestinian activist. Buddy, that's about as politically-correct as it gets.
Spare me your phoney outrage. The American people have a a right to know that the behavior of a mere 20 to 40 Palestinians, mostly kids, do not represent the thoughts of an entire nation. To suggest that they do is pure bigotry. They have a right to know the context in which the alleged celbration occurred, but that is completely absent in that video. They didn't interview a single person on camera, so that we could understand exactly what these people were celebrating. Just one guy saying "we are celebrating the attack on America" would have at least established a time frame for the piece. Instead, they just presented a celebration and told us some people said stuff like this. This isn't journalism, it's bullshit, especially when you are dealing with a topic as sensitive as this.
What CNN chose not to show us hundreds of times were the vigils held by Palestinians and throughout the Muslim world in honor of the victims, nor the numerous Arab leaders who expressed their condolensces, including Arafat. In Tehran, over 60,000 people gathered in a stadium devoted a minute of silence to the victims. Where was this story? But they showed that video, completely devoid of any context but the one the presenters gave to it, hundreds of times on 9-11 juxtaposed with images of the burning towers in a deliberate attempt to inflame anti-Muslim bigotry. Don't pretend that you, or they, didn't realize what effect that video would have.
Why didn't CNN, Reuters or APTN, which were responsible for this video, allow their cameramen to be interviewed? Why did they refuse to respond to requests for an explanation fo what happened that day, other than to deny charges that the videos were actually taken earliers from another event? If there were so many Palestinians out celebrating, why did the media run the same 30-second clip of the same Palestinians rather than show other videos, particularly with some context included?They should not have been hard to find if the claims being made were really true.This is journalism?
As Matt Taibbi noted in his brilliant expose of the media's deliberately manipulative use of this video, there has probably never been a single piece of anti-Arab propaganda as effective as this:
Probably no single film clip in recent history has had as much of an impact as the Palestine clip. Summing it up one way was Ehud Sprinzak, an Israeli expert on terrorism, who was quoted in Reuters, referring to the clip:
"From the perspective of Jews, it is the most important public relations act ever committed in our favor.”
Put it another way: in the 48 hours after the clip ran, Israelis shot and killed 13 Palestinians in the Jenin area of the West Bank.
Thirty seconds was all that took. Forget about anyone ever being reasonable when this is the way our leading journalists work.
http://www.marxists.de/middleast/current/cnn.htm
Posted by Sean2009 | January 12, 2010, 11:15 pmThe American people have a a right to know that the behavior of a mere 20 to 40 Palestinians…
You go to far in your attempt to mislead now, Sean. That's not mere ignorance… you've got malicious intent, to lie about such a matter on such a magnitude. No excuse for it. I think I'm done talking to you now. At least until next time. I'm having trouble even finding anything humorous about your lies tonight.
Posted by programmer craig | January 13, 2010, 12:50 amIf you don't like having your hasbara challenged, don't post it here. Simple.
Posted by Sean2009 | January 13, 2010, 12:27 pmSean, I simply don't believe somebody who makes a claim like this:
The American people have a a right to know that the behavior of a mere 20 to 40 Palestinians…
Has the audacity to accuse somebody else of deliberately spreading misinformation. There were dozens of western journalists in Lebanon and Gaza & West bank that day. They all tell the same story. You don't get to pretend that nobody knows the truth, and you don't get to pretend it was only a few misguided teens. Your behavior is despicable.
Posted by programmer craig | January 13, 2010, 7:00 pmThose "dozens" of journalists all link to the same video, or images from this video, or make unproven and unprovable hearsay claims like "witnesses reported gunfire in Palestinian camps." What "witnesses?" The Israeli public affairs office?
I know you're not honest, Craig, and think you've stumbled upon the magic touchstone that justifies your anti-Muslim bigotry and that of the media. But for something this inflammatory, an honest person requires a better standard of evidence than mere hearsay. Do you understand what "hearsay" is, Craig? Look it up on Google. But here's a brief introduction as to why it's use is frowned upon in responsible journalism:
http://books.google.com/books?id=ha6i7TTKCtsC&…
Yet the media irresponsibly broadcast this weak, hearsay evidence repeatedly knowing full well the impact it was going to have on American viewers. To suggest they did so innocently or without malice is the height of gullibility and willfull ignorance.
Even if we accept these claims at face value and without the critical evaluation they demand, it still doesn't prove that more than a small minority of Arabs, Muslims or Palestinians were out celebrating or that this schadenfreude was the prevalent attitude. For people who don't share your knee-jerk bigotry or think in black and white terms about 1.5 billions of our fellow human beings, your case is unconvincing.
Posted by Sean2009 | January 14, 2010, 2:59 amhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactions_to_the_Sep…
The Palestinian National Authority (PNA) immediately condemned the attacks. Fox News reported that in Ein el-Hilweh, Lebanon's largest Palestinian refugee camp, revelers fired weapons in the air, with similar celebratory gunfire heard at the Rashidiyeh camp near the southern city of Tyre as well.
Reports and images of Palestinians from East Jerusalem, Nablus, and Lebanon taking to the streets in celebration, were broadcast around the world with many newspapers, magazines, Web sites and wire services running photographs. The PNA claimed such celebrations were not representative of the sentiments of the Palestinian people, and the Information Minister Yasser Abed Rabbo said the PNA would not allow "a few kids" to "smear the real face of the Palestinians". In an attempt to quash further reporting, Ahmed Abdel Rahman, Arafat's Cabinet secretary, said the Palestinian Authority could not "guarantee the life" of an Associated Press (AP) cameraman if footage he filmed of post-9/11 celebrations in Nablus was broadcast. Rahman's statement prompted a formal protest from the AP bureau chief, Dan Perry.
I'm looking for a story about footage Yassir Araft demanded by broadcast of him pretending to donate blood to the victims, after he was notified of widespread Palestinian celebrations.
PS: In that wiki, look how lame those denials are. But not as lame as yours.
Posted by programmer craig | January 13, 2010, 7:12 pmAccording to Fox News. Now there's a credible source. Once again we have hearsay reports of revelers firing shots in the air. Yet no one was able to film any of this because, get this, the all-powerful Palestinian Authority prevented anyone from taking pictures or videos.
And you talk about lame excuses.
Somehow, the media has managed to acquire thousands of hours of footage of protests in Iran—including violent responses by the government—and despite a crackdown on media by the Iranian authorities, but they couldn't get a single on-camera interview or video with a single Palestinian, Arab or Muslim anywhere celebrating the attacks because of the absoluute and total lock down on information coming out of the entire Muslim world.
How gullible do you have to be to believe something like this?
I'll tell you why they have thousands of hours of video of protest in Tehran and 30 seconds of an alleged celebration in Nablus: the protests were real, the alleged celebrations were not.
But of course the videos of Arafat giving blood were fake, because a guy who braved Israeli tank fire in his compound unflinchingly is afraid of needles.
Priceless.
Thank God there are people stupid enough to believe this stuff, or a lot of hasbaratchiks would be out of a job.
Posted by Sean2009 | January 14, 2010, 3:12 amSean, you can't possibly be this ignorant. You're deliberately trying to cover it up. Bottom line: you're a scumbag.
Posted by programmer craig | January 14, 2010, 4:45 pmFox News:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrM0dAFsZ8k
CNN:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMOZvbYJMvU
http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=7&x…
According to the AP, Israel Radio and the Jerusalem Post, the Palestinians threatened news organizations and their workers in an effort to stop the broadcast of video, and the publishing of photographs, showing large crowds of Palestinians in Nablus and Ramallah joyfully celebrating the deadly 9/11 terrorist attacks against Americans. Presumably they understood that such video and photos would be repugnant to Americans — and millions of others around the world — and might damage their image.
Photographers and stringers (mostly Palestinians themselves) were forced by Palestinian gunmen to stop filming the celebrations (see Agence France Press report), and they were threatened with death if their video was broadcast. The news organizations they work for were told that everyone from their news organization would lose their access to PA officials and be unable to cover events in PA territory if they broadcast any video or photos of the large celebrations.
An AP photographer was specifically threatened with death if his photos were published. AP has published a report about the threat, but has caved in to the PA's request not to publish these photos.
Thus far, only videos and photos of small crowds celebrating in eastern Jerusalem and Lebanon have been broadcast/published. It appears the Palestinian intimidation tactics are working to keep the most damning scenes from Ramallah and Nablus off American (and worldwide) television screens and out of the newspapers.
Posted by programmer craig | January 13, 2010, 7:20 pmThus far, only videos and photos of small crowds celebrating in eastern Jerusalem and Lebanon have been broadcast/published. It appears the Palestinian intimidation tactics are working to keep the most damning scenes from Ramallah and Nablus off American (and worldwide) television screens and out of the newspapers.
Oh yeah, that all powerful Palestinian lobby in action again. I wonder if they are also blocking the reports of 5 Israelis who filmed themselves dancing and celebrating 9-11 with the two burning towers in the background. When three of these guys were later interviewed on Israeli television, they claimed their purpose was to "document the event."
Really? How did they know the event was going to occur?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X63CQ-dXkwU
Wonder why the media never showed those images or videos. Oh that’s right, they're classified for some strange reason. Don't you think the public has a right to know what was on those videos those Israelis shot? Did it show one or both towers being hit? We'll never know, and CNN will never run that story a hundred times a day until we do, I can promise you that.
Don't you think the American public also has a right to know that the PM of Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu, said that he thought the attacks were good for Israel? Not just once, but on two separate occasions? What's more important, the opinions of a handful or Palestinian kids or the PM of Israel?
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/975574.html
Posted by Sean2009 | January 14, 2010, 3:45 amArafat:
http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/lynn-davidson/20…
As Joel Pollak recounted online at the site Guide to the Perplexed [ed. link here], Enderlin told his Harvard audience "that Yasser Arafat had faked his blood donation to the victims of the September 11th attacks. Enderlin said the event had been staged for the media to counteract the embarrassing television images of Palestinians celebrating in the streets after the World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks."
There's plenty more, Sean. Did you know that Palestinian newspapers even published articles praising Osama bin Ladin and calling the 9/11 hijackers heroes, and the "bravest among us"?
Have you learned how to use Google yet, by the way?
Posted by programmer craig | January 13, 2010, 7:28 pm"The American people have a a right to know that the behavior of a mere 20 to 40 Palestinians, mostly kids, do not represent the thoughts of an entire nation. To suggest that they do is pure bigotry."
I've come to expect this as part of Sean's daily dose of hypocrisy. I'm trying to think of all the times he has accused me of labeling anyone who I disagree with as an "anti-Semite"…yet every time he has nothing to respond with (which, unsurprisingly, is MOST of the time), he screams "Bigot!". People who criticize Islamic fundamentalists and see it as a threat are "bigots". Pointing out that the "resistance" in Iraq has justified its barbaric actions under the Koran is labeled as "bigotry", even though those of us who condemn the "resistance" are doing so because of our outrage towards the murder of innocent Arabs and Muslims.
Posted by C.H. | January 13, 2010, 10:46 pmThe hypocrisy is yours. You demonize the entire Muslim world on the basis of a handful of people, yet scream anti-Semite when someone criticizes the policies of the Israeli government, as if I ever tried to implicate the Jewish people as a whole in the crimes of Israel. You keep repeating the same tired ad hominems, obfuscations, false accusations and distortions of my point of view, and then demand a fresh response with every attack as though it's owed to you. I see no reason to respond to your distortions when they speak for themselves.
I invariably respond to your accusations with reason, logic and with factual references, while you respond to mine by creating strawmen. I also point out where your remarks are bigoted and distorted. When you can't respond factually to what I write, or refute my logic, you just make stuff up or go for the cheap shot. Every time.
Your alleged sympathy for innocent Arabs is touching. You express this suppo
Posted by Sean2009 | January 14, 2010, 2:07 pmYou express this support by justifying every atrocity launched against them.
Posted by Sean2009 | January 14, 2010, 2:08 pmUtterly absurd. Where do you get this info on Palestinian newspapers, from MEMRI? CAMERA? Give me a break. Why aren't the American people informed of the fact Netanyahu thinks the 9-11 attacks were good for Israel?
Posted by Sean2009 | January 14, 2010, 3:47 amSean, this discussion is over. You're a pathological liar and I'm not going to argue about something that's a fact, with somebody who doesn't believe in facts.
Posted by programmer craig | January 15, 2010, 5:35 pmI see. And do you apply the same standard to yourself when you savage Israelis about "war crimes", murder, stealing land, collective punishment and yada yada yada? Or do you deny doing that? Gonna ask me to prove it, now?
Israel is guilty of every crime you mentioned. Unlike the lies about Iranian democracy your attribute to me, I am happy to stand by this remark. The UN, Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, B'Tselem and other human rights organziations, as well as the Goldstone Report, all found Israel guilty of war crimes and the deliberate trageting of civilians and civilian infrastructure in thei massacre in Gaza. Yet 94 percent of Israeli Jews supported Israel's attacks against Gaza. While it would not be fair to say that every Israelli supports Israel's crimes, it is clear that an overwhelming majority do. What kind of society approves of dropping white phosphorous on kids? This is different from merely voting for the parties responsible for this, which may reflect political realities or preferences other than a desire to attack the Palestinians. This is direct approval of the attack itself.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=J…
Posted by Sean2009 | January 12, 2010, 11:26 pmSo in other words, when I do the same thing you do it is racism on my part. As fadi would say: EPIC FAIL
Posted by programmer craig | January 13, 2010, 12:46 amNo comment on this one, Sean? So you are just going to leave it there where you insult Israelis for their behavior and call it activism, but accuse me of racism when I insult Palestinians for their behavior? Maybe you just can't think of a way to rationalize this hypocrisy?
Posted by programmer craig | January 13, 2010, 7:05 pmWhy don't you try reading my reply before spouting off with your usual cheap ad hominems and insinuations?
Posted by Sean2009 | January 14, 2010, 3:01 am"You slander all Americans when you try to cover up the fact that Palestinians all across the occupied territories and in the camps in Lebanon were wildly celebrating on 9/11."
That's an exaggeration. Thousands? The video clips I had seen at the time showed like 40 people. 40 people, mostly children, should not represent the majority of Palestinians. You know, there were 4 Israelis arrested in the US that day for celebrating the towers falling. Are you going to slander the Israelis for that??
And don't compare the Palestinians to the Germans of the '30s. It's a dishonest comparison.
Posted by AC Slater | January 13, 2010, 6:51 amAre you Sean posting under another name? Or just somebody who repeats the same bullshit?
Posted by programmer craig | January 13, 2010, 6:56 pmNo, I'm not Sean. Sean just made similar points.
No bullshit.
Posted by AC Slater | January 13, 2010, 9:00 pmSean just made similar points.
You told the exact same lie, you mean. Is it from a "Pro-Palestinian Activist" tip sheet or something?
Posted by programmer craig | January 14, 2010, 12:12 amThese guys are more anti-Israel than "pro" anything.
Posted by C.H. | January 14, 2010, 12:21 amDo you know what? You can search for "Gaza War" on this site and get over 400 results. A search for "Operation Cast Lead" draws up two pages of results, hundreds of posts here are attributed to Israel's treatment of Arabs.
But I wonder how many KABOBers have heard of "Operation Scorched Earth" taking place in northern Yemen.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Scorched_E…
The fighting and aerial bombing has killed hundreds of people, displaced hundreds of thousands, and drawn in regional powers including KSA and Iran. Yet there is nothing from the "Arab Street" and the so-called "antiwar" movement here in the US that went nuts and exploded with anger when Israel bombed Gaza. For crying out loud, "scorched earth" is the term used to describe genocide and destruction of a region…if that doesn't get your attention, I don't know what will. I can't even imagine what would happen if Israel named their operation this. They would be "Nazis". The Holocaust would be invoked, just as it is now. Yet for all the anger over Gaza, no one seems to give a damn about the conflict in Yemen…even though it has catastrophic international repercussions should it intensify.
Its sort of like the Nahr al Bared refugee camp in Lebanon…I can only find two posts about this here on KABOBfest…one mentioning it in a story about Israel and a call by "Fadi" for donations.
http://www.kabobfest.com/?s=nahr+el-bared
Not once are the Lebanese Army referred to as "Nazis" or "War Criminals" even though its acknowledged that they indiscriminately shelled civilians…Palestinian civilians.
Posted by C.H. | January 14, 2010, 1:56 amYou do realize the US has participated in air attacks as part of "Operation Scorched Earth," don't you? That title sounds like iti came straight from a Pentagon boardroom. Of course, the usual accusations that Al Qaeda, Iran and Hezbollah are all involved with the insurgents have also been made, as could be predicted. Every insurrection against a corrupt and brutal government anywhere is automatically labeled "terrorism" if that government is backed by the US, and "freedom-fighting" if it isn't.
Do you realize that many of the Arabs who write for this site are Palestinians and Palestinian Americans? So their concern with Israel is obvious. If this site were run by Pakistanis, I would expect a greater emphasis on Pakistan.
But of course, you are trying to insinuate some sort of dark motive for focusing on Israel, as if Israel's crimes should be ignored.
Posted by Sean2009 | January 14, 2010, 2:39 pm"Of course, the usual accusations that Al Qaeda, Iran and Hezbollah are all involved with the insurgents have also been made, as could be predicted."
An Al-Qaeda agent, from Yemen, infiltrated into US Air Space strapped in bomb laden underwear…Al-Qaeda in Yemen proudly claimed responsibility. Before that, an American Muslim in contact with a cleric in Yemen shot up a US military base. Therefore, America might have reason to launch strikes on Al-Qaeda, even though its completely beside the point.
Operation Scorched Earth is an operation against Shiite rebels in the north…in fact, its entirely separate from US-Yemeni strikes against Al-Qaeda. The US, so far has refused to consider the Houthis terrorists and more importantly, DENIES the Yemeni claims that Iran is supporting them. In other words, what you just said above is complete nonsense.
http://yemenpost.net/Detail123456789.aspx?ID=3&am…
But for a minute, lets say you're right and the US really is involved in the Houthi fighting…where are the calls for a boycott of Yemen? How come Yemeni President Saleh is not a "Nazi"? I don't see any mass protests in Arab capitals all around the ME. I don't see any leftists cartoons from carlos Latuff depicting Uncle Sam and Saleh dancing over the corpses of dead Yemeni Shiites.
It appears Sean, that you either don't believe your own propaganda or you don't care about Arabs unless the entities you hate (America and Israel) have some kind of involvement.
Posted by C.H. | January 14, 2010, 9:07 pm"Of course, the usual accusations that Al Qaeda, Iran and Hezbollah are all involved with the insurgents have also been made, as could be predicted."
An Al-Qaeda agent, from Yemen, infiltrated into US Air Space strapped in bomb laden underwear…Al-Qaeda in Yemen proudly claimed responsibility. Before that, an American Muslim in contact with a cleric in Yemen shot up a US military base. Therefore, America might have reason to launch strikes on Al-Qaeda, even though its completely beside the point.
How convenient. The US starts bombing inYemen and the highly sophisticated Al Qaeda network steps forward with an underwear bomber to provide the justification. Of course, it's not ,much of a justification, considering the shoe bomber took off from the UK. Shouldn't we be bombign the UK as well?
Operation Scorched Earth is an operation against Shiite rebels in the north…in fact, its entirely separate from US-Yemeni strikes against Al-Qaeda. The US, so far has refused to consider the Houthis terrorists and more importantly, DENIES the Yemeni claims that Iran is supporting them. In other words, what you just said above is complete nonsense.
http://yemenpost.net/Detail123456789.aspx?ID=3&am…
From the article you cited:
The carry out of December 17th operation in 2009 inside Sana’a and Abyan was preceded, in three days time, with a video tape extract that was published by Houthi office showing images of 120 dead bodies and 44 injured people which they said were killed by a U.S. fighter. However, the Yemeni government turned a blind eye to the fate of 160 Yemeni citizens while the U.S. administration denied its involvement in the incident.
Yemen's Houthi fighters say the US fighter jets have launched 28 attacks on the northwestern province of Sa'ada.
The US has used modern fighter jets and bombers in its offensive against the Yemen fighters, Houthis said in a statement.
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=113687&s…
The claims about Hezbollah and Iran havve been made by the Yemeni government:
http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2009/12/08/9359…
http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2009/12/13/9407…
But for a minute, lets say you're right and the US really is involved in the Houthi fighting…where are the calls for a boycott of Yemen? How come Yemeni President Saleh is not a "Nazi"? I don't see any mass protests in Arab capitals all around the ME. I don't see any leftists cartoons from carlos Latuff depicting Uncle Sam and Saleh dancing over the corpses of dead Yemeni Shiites.
Istambul: Protests Against Saudi Genocides in Yemen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gnKoepbcKE
Iranian students stage protest before Saudi, Yemen embassies in Tehran
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-11/25/cont…
It appears Sean, that you either don't believe your own propaganda or you don't care about Arabs unless the entities you hate (America and Israel) have some kind of involvement.
As always, you accuse me of hatred against Israel and my own country. Do you ever do anything else? I am ex US paratrooper. What the fuck did you do for this country, sit on your ass and accuse Israel's critics of being anti-Semites? Exactly how many variations of knee-jerk and sleazy accusations of anti-Semitism and anti-Americanism can you come up with?
As always with Ziofascists, you have no argument without lies and libels.
The current diplomatic rift between Israel and Turkey is just a symptom of a wide and sickening phenomenon: Israel, Jewish lobbies and Jewish ethnic campaigners around the world are employing different means to conceal the truth about the Jewish national project and its grave inhuman implications. An Israeli official would use a low seat together with an arsenal of abusive bad manners to snub a foreign diplomat, the Jewish ethnic Campaigner in the left would cry anti-Semitism in order to impose a total paralysis onto the anti Zionist discourse. In their universe the Jew never takes responsibility. In their segregated planet, the Jew never regrets or repents. The Goy, on the other hand, becomes subject to insults for just telling the truth or even for being associated with the truth. If Israel and its supporters believe that they can maintain this tactic for much longer, they are pretty deluded. The tide is changing.
http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/2010/01/truth-w…
Posted by Sean2009 | January 14, 2010, 11:48 pmSean, if I recall, you attacked Craig yesterday for linking to a Fox News story, yet here you are posting stories from Press TV, a propaganda outfit edited and made to support the Iranian government. How can you expect anyone to take your grievances against Fox seriously when you are taking statements that are practically from Khamenei himself? When I see a story in Press TV claiming that the Houthis reported US fighter planes attacking their positions, I'm inclined to believe its BS. The Houthis claiming that the US is involved in the fighting are no different than Saleh's claims that Iran is involved…both arguments have little evidence in the end.
Posted by C.H. | January 15, 2010, 1:20 amClever that you linked to protests in Istanbul and Tehran when I pointed out that there have been no Arab protests about Operation Scorched Earth. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume that you do NOT know that neither of those cities are Arab.
"I am ex US paratrooper. What the fuck did you do for this country, sit on your ass and accuse Israel's critics of being anti-Semites?"
If this is true, I thank you…however, I have my doubts about this because I have never met a soldier who attacks someone else for not serving in the military, and I have many friends who have served. For my part, I have not left civilian life, you are right. But I have worked as an aid worker in several countries across South Asia and Latin America. I'm proud of this, but understand its not for everyone. I'm not going to attack someone if they decide such work is not for them.
"How convenient. The US starts bombing inYemen and the highly sophisticated Al Qaeda network steps forward with an underwear bomber to provide the justification."
This is why its very difficult, although entertaining, to have an argument with you Sean. When I make a point, like the one above, you throw up the conspiracy theory wall…its your easy way out and a sidestep for you. I will respond by asking you this…WHY would the US want to stage a false flag operation that would justify strikes on Yemen? Yemen is an inhospitable failed state mired in multiple civil wars…it has very little oil and is awash with guns, corruption, and poverty. I can't imagine anyone in the US government wanting to waste money or time there unless it proved to be absolutely necessary. Do you think the US would be launching strikes on Yemen because there is nothing better to do?
Posted by C.H. | January 15, 2010, 1:33 amresponse posted as new comment below…
Posted by Sean2009 | January 15, 2010, 3:42 pmYou don't really know me so you can't really judge whether I'm pro or anti anything.
Posted by AC Slater | January 14, 2010, 2:47 am"You told the exact same lie, you mean."
Nope he made a similar point. I wanna know what you think about the Israelis who were celebrating on American soil on 9/11? Does that bother you at all or is it only when Palestinians do it??
Posted by AC Slater | January 14, 2010, 2:46 am"Is it from a "Pro-Palestinian Activist" tip sheet or something? "
Actually, bringing up dancing Palestinians after 9/11 sounds more like a pro-Israel point, doncha think??
Posted by AC Slater | January 14, 2010, 2:52 amActually, bringing up dancing Palestinians after 9/11 sounds more like a pro-Israel point, doncha think??
Nope. Why would I think that? It happened. Whereas, the version you tell is fiction. Which of us is more likely to be having an agenda, Slater?
Posted by programmer craig | January 15, 2010, 5:32 pmNope he made a similar point.
His "point" was a lie. You made the same point = you told the same lie. What *I* want to know, is who is responsible for putting that particularly repugnant piece of misinformation out there. Or is it just coincidence that you and Sean came back with the same absurd claim about it only being a couple of dozen kids, at the exact same time. Sounds like a talking-point to me.
Posted by programmer craig | January 15, 2010, 5:30 pm"Nope. Why would I think that? It happened. Whereas, the version you tell is fiction. Which of us is more likely to be having an agenda, Slater"
Because pro-Israeli people always bring it up. That's their ace in the hole. And my version isn't fiction. There was a Der Spiegel article (in German) that said the rest of the street was calm. But let's assume it was thousands of Palestinians…do you wonder why they would dance? Maybe getting killed by American weapons has something to do with it…..maybe. But let me tell you something, dancing to others' misfortunes maybe repulsive and distasteful, but it's not a crime and it certainly doesn't mean they deserve to get shitted on all the time.
And you never answered my question Mr. Craig,
"I wanna know what you think about the Israelis who were celebrating on American soil on 9/11? Does that bother you at all or is it only when Palestinians do it??"
Since you allegedly don't have an agenda, you shouldn't have a problem answering that question.
Posted by AC Slater | January 15, 2010, 6:11 pmI notice that when you say "Boycott Israel" it's like holding a cross up to a vampire's face.
It kills the vampire.
It also kills all further comments.
Posted by Boycott Israel | January 11, 2010, 7:25 pm100% of all 535 members of Congress, including Senate and House, either support aid to Israel — name me one, in the last decade who has ever advocated halting aid to Israel due to its human rights violations.
Can you tell me that 100% of the United States also supports Israel, even after the Gaza Massacre?
No. So how is this Congress a "democracy"?
Boycott Israel.
Posted by Boycott Israel | January 11, 2010, 9:00 pm"name me one, in the last decade who has ever advocated halting aid to Israel due to its human rights violations."
To name a few: Ron Paul, Keith Ellison, Roberty Byrd, and Cynthia Mckinney are all critical of Israel and American support to Israel.
Posted by C.H. | January 11, 2010, 9:12 pmCan you tell me that 100% of the United States also supports Israel, even after the Gaza Massacre?
No. So how is this Congress a "democracy"?
Actually, I'd be pretty surprised if there was a congressional district (excluding Dearborn) in which a majority of people don't support Israel. And yes, that is an example of representative democracy. There would be something very wrong if a majority of people in the US supported Israel, but the US Federal gov't did not.
Posted by programmer craig | January 11, 2010, 9:30 pmShould be *Robert
Posted by C.H. | January 11, 2010, 9:12 pmTo C.H.:
It's true that McKinney has spoken clearly now, against the Israeli siege on Palestine– *but only since she was forced out of Congress.*
Ron Paul has never, in the mass media, ever been heard denouncing Israel's treatment of Palestinians. He simply opposes all foreign aid to anyplace.
I've not heard of Ellison publicly denouncing Israeli treatment of Palestinians– but I hope you're right.
That old racist swine Byrd? If he has said anything denouncing Israeli treatment of Palestinians, fine– but I've heard nothing in the media about it. And that man is an EXPERT at getting major media publicity when he wants it.
Maybe you could get us some quotes. Thanks.
Posted by Boycott on campus | January 12, 2010, 1:15 amTo Craig:
Americans today are tranquil as they watch Iraq, Afghanistan, and Palestine get incinerated. Millions have been killed, with the joint efforts of the U.S. and Israel.
Americans are generally against these wars, but not enough to make any visible sign of it. Not a single noteworthy demonstration against these wars, on campus or off, for ages.
Americans in 2010 = Germans in 1942: complacent in the face of genocide.
So what are you going to do about it?
I am going to ask that Israel be boycotted, and that these very racist, very violent, occupations be ended immediately.
Posted by Boycott on campus | January 12, 2010, 4:12 amWill you be plotting a boycott of Yemen and Lebanon for their treatment of Palestinians and their "siege" of their own people?
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/18/world/middleeas…
Posted by C.H. | January 14, 2010, 3:02 amCraig–
It is a fact that Palestinians never asked to be occupied or placed into camps in Lebanon in 1948.
If, in 2001, all 9 million Palestinians, officially went on TV, and officially signed affidavits, "wildly celebrating 9/11", does that mean they have no more rights?
Does that mean Israel should keep killing them, maybe all 9 million of them?
Regardless of your answer, I still say boycott Israel.
Posted by Boycott Israel | January 12, 2010, 6:45 pm…does that mean they have no more rights?
No, but it means they – collectively speaking – don't have any right to expect sympathy from me, or from any other American. Do you disagree?
Posted by programmer craig | January 13, 2010, 12:44 amIf this is true, I thank you…however, I have my doubts about this because I have never met a soldier who attacks someone else for not serving in the military, and I have many friends who have served.
Craig just attacked me for my alleged lack of military service, and ex-military do this all the time. It is usually a cheap tactic to accuse someone of lack of patriotism for failing to serve in the military. However, when confronted with a chickenhawk or warmonger, like you, pointing out your failure to serve and the rank sleaziness of accusing me of being anti-American for questioning my government's policies or being insufficiently loyal to Israel is wholly appropriate.
This is why its very difficult, although entertaining, to have an argument with you Sean. When I make a point, like the one above, you throw up the conspiracy theory wall…its your easy way out and a sidestep for you.
Whenever I question the story the government or media is feeding us, you shout "conspiracy theory" or "anti-Semitism" or "anti-American." Or yoiu accuse me of lying or presenting "propaganda." This is a fairly common tactic of the right and Israel apologists to shut down debate and keep people from thinking whether or not what they are being told is true. It is proof of nothing, and refutes not a single point or argument I offer, yet it is the core of every rebuttal you make.
The problem here of course is that I didn't present a theory, let alone a "conspiracy theory." What I did, was question the likelihood that a highly sophisticated terrorist organization would carry out an operation as clownishly amateurish as this one was, or that they would do so in a way that conveniently justifies America's attacks in Yemen. The burden of proof is not on me to prove that this abusrd story is true, but on you and the government to do so. To believe your story, I have to believe the following:
1. That "al-Qaida, an organization that allegedly pulled off the most fantastic terror attack in world history, would in these days of heightened security choose for an attack on an airliner a person who is the most conspicuous of all? Umar Farouk Mutallab had a one-way ticket, no luggage, no passport, and his father, reportedly a CIA and Mossad asset, had reported him to the CIA and Mossad. Does anyone really believe that al-Qaida would choose as an airliner bomber a person waving every red flag imaginable?."—Paul Craig Roberts
http://www.opednews.com/articles/Insouciant-Ameri…
2. That an organization that pulled off one of the most sophisticated and deadly terrorist attacks in history can't figure out how to make a bomb go off, and even if this bomb did go off, experts say it wouldn't have damaged the plane.
3. During WWII, OAS agents were given cyanide capsules in case they were captured by the Germans to keep them from divulging secrets under torture. Yet al-Qaeda seems so unconcerned about the very high probability of an operative being captured while sneaking a FUCKING BOMB ON A PLANE they didn't give this guy a suicide pill he could bite down on to avert capture. Instead, when the FBI questioned this supposedly hardened terrorist, he sang like a canary.
So I don't know what the truth is here, but this story sounds like pure bullshit to me, and it is simply impossible for me to believe it. I don't believe in coincidence theories…that events just magically happen by sheer conicidence to fall into place just as the government needs them to, and these events can not just once but repeatedly occur no matter how improbable or unlikely they may seem to even the casual questioner, let alone the more scientific one.
But to question this story makes me a "conspiracy theorist" in your view. I am somehow insane for failing to see the truth in this highly unlikely tale. It is interesting that you would question my military experience, despite the fact tens of millions of American men have served in the military and the likelihood any one man you meet on the street is a veteran is very high. Yet you expect me to believe a story as improbable as this.
As for an answer to the rest of your question as to what motivation the government might have for doing this, I suggest you read the rest of Robert's article.
Posted by Sean2009 | January 15, 2010, 3:42 pmCraig just attacked me for my alleged lack of military service, and ex-military do this all the time. It is usually a cheap tactic to accuse someone of lack of patriotism for failing to serve in the military.
No, Sean, I attacked you for being a pathological liar and an unapologetic propagandist. The other thing was about you apparently having led such a sheltered life that you've never even seen the other boy's wee-wees
Posted by programmer craig | January 15, 2010, 5:26 pmHere's an exact quote:
"And then I spent 6 years in USMC infantry. And now I go to the gym 3x a week. All of which have communal showers/locker rooms. I take it you never played sports, never go to the gym, never served in the military and had nerd waivers that got you out of physical education when you were a kid?"
Sounds like someone berating me for my alleged lack of military service. As for being a liar, I am still waiting for proof that I said Iranian democracy was superior to ours.
You're the last one who should be calling anyone a liar or a propagandist. Your usual approach here is to make blatantly racist comments and then back off or childishly accuse others of the same thing they accuse you of when you're called on them. This time, though, you stuck to your guns because you really imagine you have established the "proof" necessary to portray all Muslims and Arabs as terrorists and America-haters who would gloat over the deaths of innocents. But when I exposed the shallow and blatantly manipulative nature of the evidence you (and the media) presented, you do not justify the evidence or give a reason why it should be believed, but attack me as a liar and "propagandist" instead. Par with the course for you.
As always, you think insults, insinuations and accusations trump reason and facts. They do not.
Posted by Sean2009 | January 15, 2010, 8:57 pmSean, serious question: How stupid are you?
I hate to think I've invested this much time arguing with an imbecile, but you just proved my point and dismissed your own, and you don't even realize it
Posted by programmer craig | January 15, 2010, 10:41 pm"Craig just attacked me for my alleged lack of military service, and ex-military do this all the time."
I didn't seem to get that impression from Craig…what you said was definitely an attack on me for not serving in the military. You also seem to be angry at ex-military who don't buy into your point of view, judging by the above statement.
"However, when confronted with a chickenhawk or warmonger, like you, pointing out your failure to serve and the rank sleaziness of accusing me of being anti-American for questioning my government's policies or being insufficiently loyal to Israel is wholly appropriate."
I already told you Sean, I chose an alternative to the military. Attack me all you want, but I believe there are many of them. Personally I think teaching English at an orphanage in countries affected by war and poverty is every bit as rewarding as serving in the military…and you get the added benefit of serving the global community, too. But this is just my belief…you are free to make your own choice. And BTW, being a soldier or a former soldier doesn't mean you can't be anti-American…look at Nidal Malik Hassan and James Von Brunn.
When I read your posts, I can only draw up the conclusion that you have a deep disdain for the United States…you accuse the US military of orchestrating bombings across Iraq to "prolong the occupation", for God's sake and you routinely accuse Americans of being "racist". In fact, many of your posts have made me question whether you even live here.
Posted by C.H. | January 15, 2010, 11:10 pmYou will find many hearing aids reviews throughout our website. If you’re like most people with hearing problems, you’re sick and tired of asking people to repeat
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