Comments on KABOBfest: Zionuts and American Jewish Opinion

I speak Russian. Let me offer a translation..."Ant...

2007-12-22T16:13:00.000-08:00

I speak Russian. Let me offer a translation...

"Antisemites of all countries unite!

To G-d we will light candles,
all Jews we will send to ovens."

It rhymes in Russian.
Nice readership you guys attract.

Antisemiti vsex stran soediniajtes'!Bogy mi postav...

2007-12-22T13:23:00.000-08:00

Antisemiti vsex stran soediniajtes'!

Bogy mi postaviv svechky,
vsex zhidov otpravim v pechky!

I REALLY don't think it would do your polling much...

2007-12-16T16:31:00.000-08:00

I REALLY don't think it would do your polling much good to show balaclava clad Palestinian Islamofascists, their smart bombs in training, or their seas of martyrs.

"Will, did you actually read the study?!!! The spi...

2007-12-14T14:11:00.000-08:00

"Will, did you actually read the study?!!! The spin on this site is getting worse."

"As you can imagine, I'm on so many pro-Israel listserves and newsletters... I get bombarded with stuff from time to time; it's too much work to look through them."

Well, your spin is precious too my dear.... never fear. I always look forward to your dizzy comments my friend.

Equating support for the PA with support or sympathy for the Palestinian people is, quite frankly, almost retarded. Cheers mate.

I've seen from 60-75% support for Israel in variou...

2007-12-13T11:12:00.000-08:00

I've seen from 60-75% support for Israel in various studies. As you can imagine, I'm on so many pro-Israel listserves and newsletters... I get bombarded with stuff from time to time; it's too much work to look through them.

The first thing that came up on google is a gallup poll from 2006.

"Gallup's World Affairs Poll also obtains basic favorable ratings of a variety of countries each year, including Israel and the Palestinian Authority. The new poll finds 68% of Americans saying they have a favorable opinion of Israel, including 21% who are "very favorable" toward it. Twenty-three percent view Israel unfavorably. Those numbers are essentially unchanged from last year, and are the most positive for Israel aside from a 79% favorable rating in February 1991 during the first Persian Gulf War."

"In stark contrast, just 11% of Americans have a favorable opinion of the Palestinian Authority, while 78% have an unfavorable view (29% say their view is "very unfavorable"). Last year, opinion was considerably more positive, with 27% favorable and 62% unfavorable. In fact, the current readings are the most negative Gallup has found since it began asking about the Palestinian Authority in 2000, while last year's were the most positive."

Sympathies for Israel jump 15% when people learn about the election of Hamas to the Palestinian government (this was before the coup on Gaza).

Furthermore, if you look beyond the raw numbers at how they translate into the political arena...

Well, I don't think I need to tell you. Attending AIPAC Policy in Washington is like getting a crash course in who-is-who in American politics. Pro-Israel support is entrenched not just among general representatives, but in the leadership structure and committee promotion system itself.

I could tell stories... but it would take too long.

I don't see utility in rubbing this stuff in. I don't see strong support for Israel among Americans as a weapon; I see it as a guarantee to give us Jews the confidence we need to negotiate a just solution, without getting massacred in the process.

The stronger the American support for Israel, the more Jews there feel confident in making concessions and acting in a restrained and calm way. If American support were to collapse... well, desperate times will call for desperate measures.

Victor,I did not say that American Jews were progr...

2007-12-13T10:48:00.000-08:00

Victor,

I did not say that American Jews were progressive on the question of Palestine or in agreement with me. It's not spin, it's just a nuanced view of ideological currents within American Jewry.

I simply see the findings in general out of step with the line spouted by pro-Israel advocates who claim to speak on behalf of the Jewish community -- the ones who advocate bombing Iran, who pushed for war on Iraq, and who want to prevent meaningful Palestinian self-determination (though pay lip service to it).

Most American Jews are soft Zionists, I agree.

Show me rock solid support for Israel among most Americans. I have not seen a study finding more than 60% support for Israel (most I've seen is 40% and a lot of I don't knows). I'm not sure if this enough to be "rock solid."

Will

Yeah, American Jews are generally more liberal. Wh...

2007-12-13T08:21:00.000-08:00

Yeah, American Jews are generally more liberal. What's your point?

Support for Israel among American Jews, and Americans in general, is rock solid.

You guys are conflating Zionism - support for a Jewish homeland - with certain specific policies of American neo-conservatives.

the survey also states:A. International Affairs1. ...

2007-12-13T08:01:00.000-08:00

the survey also states:

A. International Affairs

1. Do you approve or disapprove of the way the United States government is handling the campaign against terrorism?
Approve 31
Disapprove 59
Not Sure 10

2. Compared to one year ago, do you feel more safe from the threat of terrorism, less safe, or about as safe as you felt one year ago?
More 5
Less 22
Same 73
Not Sure 1
3. Looking back, do you think the United States did the right thing in taking military action against Iraq, or should the U.S. have stayed out?
Right thing 27
Stayed out 67
Not Sure 6

4. How would you say things are going for the United States in its efforts to bring stability and order to Iraq? Would you say things are going very well, somewhat well, somewhat badly, or very badly?
Very well 3
Somewhat well 20
Somewhat badly 33
Very badly 43
Not sure 2

This is exactly consistant with the post. and as you said:
"the American Jews are less optimistic than their Israeli counterparts."

Will, did you actually read the study?!!! The spin...

2007-12-13T07:51:00.000-08:00

Will, did you actually read the study?!!! The spin on this site is getting worse.

Results on Israel

Some important points:

1) 55% of American Jews think there will never be peace with Arabs.

2) 74% of American Jews think that peace with Hamas is impossible.

3) 46% of American Jews favor the creation of a Palestinian State. 43% oppose it.

4) 58% of American Jews refuse to compromise on Jerusalem, period.

5) 82% of American Jews think that the goal of the Arabs is not the return of the occupied territories, but the destruction of Israel!

6) 61% of American Jews think the UN treats Israel unfairly.

These are all consistent with previous surveys, and demonstrate the American Jewish community's unity on core issues. In several areas, such as permanent peace with Arabs, creation of a Palestinian state, the goals of the Arabs, the American Jews are less optimistic than their Israeli counterparts.