Comments on KABOBfest: An Open Letter to Obama From An Arab American

yes, the lesser of two evils but oh how much lesse...

2008-02-08T00:18:00.000-08:00

yes, the lesser of two evils but oh how much lesser! and I do think there is some chance, as opposed to no chance whatsoever, that we may get some movement out of Obama on Plaestine once elected.

good post and discussion (but honestly, enough about the national identity of gibran)

Obama was way cooler before he became a presidenti...

2008-02-07T22:18:00.000-08:00

Obama was way cooler before he became a presidential candidate.

We're back to thinking in terms of the "lesser of two evils".

maytha http://www.kabobfest.com/2007/03/obamas-gro...

2008-02-06T11:42:00.000-08:00

maytha
http://www.kabobfest.com/2007/03/obamas-groveling-to-aipac-insufficient.html

Did someone just say "crypto Phalangi Phoenician"?...

2008-02-06T11:14:00.000-08:00

Did someone just say "crypto Phalangi Phoenician"?

Thanks. I just found the next name for my Hip Hop group.

Actually, I didn't know about Ali Abunimah's artic...

2008-02-06T08:43:00.000-08:00

Actually, I didn't know about Ali Abunimah's article-can you please send me a link to it?

No mention of Ali Abunimah's article on Obama? Tha...

2008-02-06T08:20:00.000-08:00

No mention of Ali Abunimah's article on Obama?

That he told the one-state advocate in 2004 to "Keep up the good work" and apologized to him by saying, "Hey, I'm sorry I haven't said more about Palestine right now, but we are in a tough primary race. I'm hoping when things calm down I can be more up front."

Do you know not realize Obama has to make concessions such as this (hardly disheartening, I'd say) letter to Khalizad to remain a viable, main-stream candidate?

That he has virtually no chance of changing the situation as a senator, and would have more leverage as president? (But to get there must make these concessions?)

Gibran called himself Syrian. And all of you smal...

2008-02-06T07:43:00.000-08:00

Gibran called himself Syrian. And all of you small-minded sellout crypto-Phalangi "phoenicians" would have made him sick. Of course Assad would have made him sick, too. And probably Obama, for that matter.

In fact, Gibran would make a better president than any of these assholes. And he's dead!

But that's exactly what I'm saying, people self-id...

2008-02-05T18:24:00.000-08:00

But that's exactly what I'm saying, people self-identify in many ways-and have many different associations that aren't necessarily mutually exclusive-agreed on that point.

There's lots of identities you can have, nation, v...

2008-02-05T17:48:00.000-08:00

There's lots of identities you can have, nation, villiage and regional, too. Lebanon as a region/province has existed for millenia and that's where he was from. Just you can be both American and Texan. Would you call everyone in the Middle East in the 19th century a Turk? Is May Ziadeh, born in Nazareth, just Syrian too?

At the time of the Ottoman empire Lebanese and Palestinians were lumped under Syrian by the American gov't/ Besides that, he wrote that one very early on in his career and begged people never to publish that stuff later.

I don't think either is wrong. Like I said these arguments amuse me. Somebody edited wikipedia last time I checked to say that he was Assyrian for some reason, but it's been fixed.

You guys debating Kahlil's "nationality" are hilar...

2008-02-05T17:18:00.000-08:00

You guys debating Kahlil's "nationality" are hilarious. What you are doing is anachronistically projecting your sense of self, imperial borders, and understanding of the nation-state onto him.

Point being, you might self-identify one way, and others from that region during that time might have identified in other ways (or ones similar to you) but Kahlil actually SELF-IDENTIFIED as Syrian. It doesn't matter what has become of where he was born to his self-understanding during the time.

PC,

Yes, I did actually unleash that rant to an unsuspecting pollster who called me to make sure Obama had my vote. That's just how I am, I'm going to engage you like a human being and not a cog in a mechanical process of verbal exchange. You should see what I do with tele-marketers and army recruiters (and what interesting I learn from them when I prod and probe them deeper than they suspected).

Actually I think it's totally accurate to call him...

2008-02-05T17:04:00.000-08:00

Actually I think it's totally accurate to call him Lebanese, I'm just fucking with you guys.

Maytha, you were trying to pitch your spiel to a p...

2008-02-05T15:27:00.000-08:00

Maytha, you were trying to pitch your spiel to a pollster on the phone? For real? That's actually pretty cool :)

Clueless pollster: "Hey Bob... you aren't going to believe this, but some crazy Serbian woman was screaming at me about a terrorist group called the "zions" that is mass murdering people in Portugal!"

You know its just like the lebanese to think they ...

2008-02-05T11:38:00.000-08:00

You know its just like the lebanese to think they are better than their arab brethren. Are far as I am concerned I am from Bilad Al-sham. If you want to make national boundaries go ahead.

Gibran, stop appropriating yourself dammit! You r...

2008-02-05T10:15:00.000-08:00

Gibran, stop appropriating yourself dammit! You refer to your countrymen as Syrian, STOP IT GIBRAN! AHHHh, waa waaa

oh my god, people. gibran was lebanese.he was "syr...

2008-02-05T09:33:00.000-08:00

oh my god, people. gibran was lebanese.

he was "syrian" in the same way palestinians were also considered "syrian" under the ottoman empire, i.e. as part of "greater syria."

but in any case, by the time gibran was born THE MUTASARRIFIYEH OF LEBANON HAD ALREADY BEEN FOUNDED. lebanon, including bcharre, was a semi-autonomous state of its own.

go find your own artists and stop appropriating ours!!!!

to be technical, gibran was born in a syrian provi...

2008-02-05T05:59:00.000-08:00

to be technical, gibran was born in a syrian province of the ottoman empire that later became the state of lebanon, so both claims of syrian and lebanese descent are factually correct.

He also wrote a piece called "My Countrymen the Syrians," so there's that.

I could care less though, I just find the arguments about it amusing.

a while back Will had a post that drew attention t...

2008-02-04T23:18:00.000-08:00

a while back Will had a post that drew attention to an article in Haaretz that laid out the various canidates positions on Israel.

I don't see how kabobfest is that different. Personally, i don't think there is anything wrong in having an issue that matters most to you and voting based on that.

also, if certain zionists did not hold a dispropor...

2008-02-04T21:29:00.000-08:00

also, if certain zionists did not hold a disproportionate amount of influence in society they wouldn't get grief from every other minority.

Zionists or "Zionists" - depending on your persuasion here - do not get grief from "every other minority," (far from, in fact) no matter how much you wish they did.

They do, however, "get grief" aplenty from people like David Duke and Pat Buchanan.

As for anon, 8:17 - Will is a "patriot" and Gibran is a Syrian.

Whatever.

Your writing is pretty powerful and well written, ...

2008-02-04T21:27:00.000-08:00

Your writing is pretty powerful and well written, and your direction of color is not black nor white, but a shade of grey.

One thing Obama said in his campaign was that people at this time wanted change, and that is why he is getting the support. People are attracted to his powerful approach.

If people did not want change, Obama would not be where he is now. As hard as it is to see around it, the "majority" can have a large impact on issue.

I guess the "majority" were not in for the Palestinians today or the arab. What will it take and when is the time? That is up to the "majority" to decide.

Blind berserk gouging of people's spirits and ideas and sugar coating innocently, no matter how black and white they may be, can both disintegrate positive change for the better. Constructive criticism is that shade of grey that is just right to add that extra texture that provides a piece with more depth, perception and power.

Keep up with your work, and I hope everything is going alright for you.

Oh yeah one thing I learned in class today. The teacher will never know he/she has made a mistake unless you raise your hand and tell him/her. Its scary, but everyone in the class is thankful after.

-Mightyena

Obama is far better than any other leading candida...

2008-02-04T21:02:00.000-08:00

Obama is far better than any other leading candidate on the Middle East. Far better. So far better, that the conspiratorial part of me says an Obama victory could only be the result of US leadership class deciding to make a statement that it is beginning to disengage Israel's priorities from US decision-making.

And I've already said as president, immediately upon inauguration, I will begin to organize a summit with all the Muslim leaders around the world and have a direct conversation with them, our friends and our enemies, about how we can align the Muslim world against these barbaric actions, against terrorism. I believe that part of that will be to begin phasing out our occupation in Iraq, part of it will involve talking to actors like Iran and Syria, to get them to act more responsibly, part of it will be for us to shut down Guantanamo and restore habeas corpus and send a signal to the world that we're doing things differently. That's the kind of non-conventional thinking and approach that we're going to have to take to reverse the decline in our moral standing around the world that inhibits our ability to actually take on terrorism. That's what it's going to take to make us safer and that's what I intend to do as President of the United States.

With that said, I'm very disappointed by the letter to Khalizad. Further disappointed because he should know better. When he was involved in radical politics at Columbia and Harvard, I can't say definitely but he probably came across the principled leftist critique of Israel, and this was during the anti-Apartheid-protest era so he has to have come in contact with at least some elements of international anti-imperialist thought.

I'm mostly disappointed by the fact that he didn't have to say this. Israel-firsters are not going to believe him and vote for McCain anyway.

But on the other hand, if his campaign told him he needed a statement like this to prevent "liberal" Jewish and non-Jewish supporters of Israel from panicking being that he obviously has a family identification with Muslims, maybe he wrote the letter for that purpose.

There is no question in my mind that Obama identifies with Palestinians more closely than Clinton does, than McCain does or than Romney or Huckabee do.

He doesn't identify as closely as I do, but I could never be elected President of the United States.

Today, and this is a problem to be solved somehow, I don't believe anyone who identifies with Muslims much more closely than Obama does could be elected president. That's not a good thing, but it's not Obama's fault. It also doesn't change that in my opinion, Obama would produce the most pro-Palestinian policies the United States is capable of producing between 2008 and 2012.

actually 7:03 I assume people like Will like to se...

2008-02-04T20:17:00.000-08:00

actually 7:03 I assume people like Will like to see themselves as patriots of the country they live in and hold ties to their ethnic heritage not limited to colonial boundaries. I am ethnically/geographically arab but am an american first and foremost. Its a shame that people like yourself want to categorize everyone.

also, if certain zionists did not hold a disproportionate amount of influence in society they wouldn't get grief from every other minority.

that was exactly my point-additionally, i am o sup...

2008-02-04T20:15:00.000-08:00

that was exactly my point-

additionally, i am o supporter of hilary. i see threw all the spells cast to hide the wicked witch of the west's war to conceal her true identity!

Why should Arab-Americans such as yourself take th...

2008-02-04T19:38:00.000-08:00

Why should Arab-Americans such as yourself take the license to become one-issue voters just because you identify closely with your brethren? You aren't the only one that sympathizes openly or secretly for the Palestinian -- but to sacrifice Obama's overall progressive agenda in the interests of one ethnic group. I would never do this, no matter how closely I would hold Palestine to my heart.

Despite Obama's unfortunate capitulation to the unavoidable Jewish interest groups, it is irresponsible to let one issue hold you back from electing him if you know that he is the best candidate to lead over an array of social issues.

Besides, I challenge you to find one viable candidate on the table who won't recite the same Israel-friendly scripts.

While this generation of American politics may be ready for "change". It is not ready for an antagonistic relationship with Israeli war hawks.

Palestinian rights, unfortunately, are not a part of the equation -- so why sweat Obama's strategy? He's still surrounded by less neocons than Hillary is.

By that logic, Anon 6:41, Will is an Israeli.Go pr...

2008-02-04T19:03:00.000-08:00

By that logic, Anon 6:41, Will is an Israeli.

Go protest him.

Nice racist conspiracy theory too. Of course, you only meant the "Zionist" media owners/pastrami (diamond) sellers.

to be technical, gibran was born in a syrian provi...

2008-02-04T18:41:00.000-08:00

to be technical, gibran was born in a syrian province of the ottoman empire that later became the state of lebanon, so both claims of syrian and lebanese descent are factually correct.

as to obama, we can never expect a politician to treat arabs as people until we somehow take over the media and start selling pastrami (or diamonds) in nyc.